Drum Mics studio vs. PA - Opinions Plz?

My engineers want me to "upgrade" our drum mics.  Currently we share mics between our PA and studio.  Right now we use:
Kick - D112
Toms - Senn 604's
OH's/Hat - sm81's

We also have a Studio Projects C3 & an AT4050 we use for vocals & OH/room mics.

I'm thinking of Beta91 & Audix D6 for kick, but not sure of the rest, (although I'm getting heavy lobbying for a Beta 52).  For toms, all the "big guys" seem to be hot on Senn 421's but they are pretty expensive although I already have 1.  Thinking of getting a pair of the Cascade Fat Head Ribbon mics for OH's.  They seem to be getting great reviews and are well priced.

Si...in wanting to upgrade our mic collection to "studio-specific" mics so we don't have to share, I'd like to hear people's opinion on what would take us to the "next level" for studio mics...Thx!

I dunno so much about the other mics, but the concept of 'upgrading' from a D112 as a BD mic is... interesting.  Just buy another one. Or if you must change, and want a slightly cheaper mic than the overpriced Beta 52, go for a Senn E902.

But I'd stick with D112's myself. As for the rest of the mics - well, you have quite a large choice, really, and it's very budget-dependent. there's nothing particularly wrong with any of the mics in your list - except that with drums, you have to consider the practicalities as much as the sound, especially with a lot of people using the mics. That's why I like the D112s, as much as anything - they will take any amount of abuse, and still deliver the goods. In general, you need mics that are relatively easy to position, and also stand the odd knock without throwing a complete wobbly. And don't take up too much room around the kit.

But I don't change any of the mics I use very often - maybe somebody with some experience of a few of these newer mics actually around a kit could chime in?

If you are happy with the drum set up this very much falls in the if it aint broke catagory

let the PA 'upgrade'

Different mics might provide for different sounds for specific applications and while about 3 times as expensive I like using the MD421 on Toms (and horns and as a substitute studio Kick mic and . . . ) I would see that as a 'upgrade' of the E604s but the E604s are marginally, in studio (live is a different issue), easier to mount and manipulate

for general purpose workhorse (removing species specific 'taste' from equation) brick sh*t H*ze mics you can't really do better then D112 & SM81 . . . that they are not new designs simply demonstrates that they do the job and live, survive, in the field

if you have the budget get another D112, a pair of SM81s and a pair of MD421's . . . should upgrade you into the next century

You've got a perfectly serviceable set of mics there. If they aren't producing the right sound then I'd look for reasons other than the mics. Microphones are very much a matter of taste so maybe you need to ask the engineers that are pushing for a change what mics they would like to use. Beware of any 'flavour of the month' mics though - there are quite a few mics around that are initially impressive but when you put tracks recorded with them in a mix you find that they just don't sit right.

Cheers

James.

Actually the issue is not about the sound of the mics...Let me re-state my intent:
Currently we "share" mics between the PA & the studio (I do about 100+ shows a yr.)  So sometimes we get conflicts of need for both.  I want to send what I have to the field as dedicated mics, and then I want to replace them with more studio-type mics that are more conducive to the studio environment.

I scored a pair of AKG C1000's for $150 & can't decide whether to send them out for overheads & keep the 81's for the studio, or vice-versa.  I did pick up a matched pair of the Cascade Fat Head II Ribbon Mics for overheads.

I do have 2-D112's so I'll send one to the field, and keep the other at the studio.

I think I'm going to send the e604's to the field, and see if I can get one more 421 since that seems to be the "mic Du jour" for recording drum toms.  I already have one, and most of the bands these days record 4-pc so I'm covered.  I've got a bid in on one so we'll see.  If I need another mic I can always bust out a trusty 57!

If I remember correctly the C1000 is a Back electret design.  It is not a bad mic and $150 for a pair is a reasonable price to pay

It will have a higher noise floor, then the SM81, and would be the mic I'd send into the field.  In fact when I've used it I've tended to use it not for overheads but for live vocals and bright stringed instruments

In the studio I'd certainly be willing to play around with using the ribbons as overheads, but gut instinct suggests the SM81s would be more serviceable.  That said I could certainly see using the ribbon's figure of 8 pickup as an additional room mic . . . something to use as seasoning during the mix

One of the issues you can run into, particularly with the inexpensive modern ribbons, is that the ribbon sags more then it should, is not tensioned appropriately.  Ribbon tension will effect output level and response time . . . whether the sag will interfere enough with percussion attack to be noticeable is, of course, a 'system' issue: room, style of music, skill of drummer, mic placement . . . somewhere in that mix of elements the 'sag' might be significant (or not).  Main point is that while I think the ribbons are definite useful addition to mic cabinet they would not tend to be my first go-to choice for percussion overheads

good luck