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nebbie · Posted - Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:55 pm

Hello out there!
Although I've been using CEP for a couple of years, this is my first time in the "forum".
Today, I just purchased a new "workstation" which will be dedicated entirely and exclusively to "digital remastering", which I do for a living. I haven't purchased any hardware for several years. In searching the "web", I can't seem to find the info. I'm seeking. I need an external CD burner of high quality and must burn at one time speed (1x). I am not interested in any of the numerous "consumer level" burners, but I need something that will burn very high quality and will handle a very heavy workload. The problem I'm running in to is that the all of the different mfgrs'. ads tout the fact that they burn at a gazillion times speed. I have no use for this since I am burning finished masters that must be submitted to pressing plants for production. I was wondering if someone could help by pointing me in the right direction by making some suggestions and/or recommendations about some possible brand and or models. I've checked the web sites of all the major brands and cannot find the info. I need. Does anyone know of any high quality "burners" that will burn at 1x?
Thanks in advance to all who respond. Your help will be greatly appreciated.

Nebbie

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Hi Nebbie,

Some thoughts: Yuo've specified "external" so that must imply that it's connected to the computer by usb or (rarely now) parallel interface. USB 1 type burners run at a maximum speed of x4 because of the slowness of the interface - parallel at x2 for the same reason. I think it likely that any such burner would offer a x1 speed. I have a Tascam CD-RW4U standalone CD recorder (in other words, it has audio inputs) which also can act as a USB-connected burner. I'll try burning a x1 disc during the day and report back.

However, there have been many previous posts here on the subject of burn speed and mastering, and I think I'm right in saying that the consensus is that x1 is by no necessary for mastering. SteveG (a highly respected Gold Member of this forum) said in a post I read last night that x8 was fine as far as he's concerned. I'm burning for radio broadcast of classical music recitals and they've never complained about x16 discs.

I'm sure your post will generate some passionate responses in the next few days!

- Ozpeter

nebbie · Posted - Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:27 pm

Hi Ozpeter

Thank you for your prompt response and thought provoking insights.

You're right about "external" and USB. I have my old "workstation" rigged that way, but I got a bit of an education on the new computers. In looking at them in the store, I noticed and was informed that there is now USB2 and "Firewire" hookups. I really don't care which I use. I would assume that anything I buy now will hookup via one or the other. The other day I checked with my professional equipment distributor about a new burner. He supplies most of my bulk media and equipment (mixing consoles, commercial burners, etc). He advised that he was not aware of any burner that he handled that would burn at 1x. I don't know if he just didn't know or I must go to a "Stand Alone" type such as you described or like my "Marantz 620". The burner I currently use is a Sony Spressa and doesn't necessarily state that it burns 1x, but the Sony softwear I'm using authorizes the 1x burn and. of course, the burner doesn't object. Also, the burner and softwear are about 5 years old. I wanted a better burner than the Sony. Even checking Sony's website wasn't fruitful. I am really surprised that this has become a quest for the "Holy Grail".

Regarding the potential for "passionate responses". I think you're right. I guess I'll begin the fray by stating that the pressing plant who receives most of my masters, will not accept any master at more than 4x but they have stated that they prefer 1x. I would aggree that there probably wouldn't be much of a problem with 4x or even 8x for normal copying for replay, but I think the masters are a different story. I would just prefer to be safe and not even create the potential for any problems, since one upset record label could cost me dearly in terms of a lost client and bad P.R. The debate of burning speed notwithstanding, I can't believe I can't find a burner that won't burn at 1x.

I appreciate that you would attempt a "burn" to see what happens. I also appreciate your comments and thank you for getting back to me.

I would welcome any additional thoughts or comments.

Nebbie

ozpeter · Location: Australia

... meanwhile there's stuff in this thread

'Nero or Exact Audio Copy?'

re 'burn proof' and errors which may interest you if it's not already caught your eye.

nebbie · Posted - Tue Jul 23, 2002 5:50 pm

Thanks for the thread. I jumped over.....lots of interesting commentary. I quickly scanned it, but will read it thoroughly tomorrow.

Thanks again.

ozpeter · Location: Australia

I've tested my Tascam CD-RW4U recorder/burner sooner than I thought - it was that or doing the accounts... - and it does indeed write at 1x /2x /4x, over USB1. I burned a six minute track onto a rewriteable by way of test, and it took nearly ten minutes - lead in/out write times are awesomely slow, but I guess in the context of your topic, that's good! I used the provided 'Bs Recorder' software (not brilliant) and also EAC. Quality checking the burned CD in EAC gave 100% quality (but I often get that when burning on the internal writer at 16x). You may find that it's essential to find a burner which is NOT firewire or USB2 as these may be built for speed and refuse to go slow - so USB1 may be the best. I've been very happy with my Tascam but one man's meat is another man's poison for course. But I'd certainly recommend that you check it out (there's specs and pics on the web at many sites), as it does appear to fulfil your technical requirements.

I take your point concerning speed - if the plant specifies a certain speed, that's the speed they are going to have to be given.

Wildduck · Posted - Tue Jul 23, 2002 11:56 pm

I don't know whether the other thread covers this, but I use a USB burner with different OS's on different laptops. I find that different burning software behaves differently depending on the OS. Many will not work at all under, for example, XP.

I think if you stick to 98SE you should be OK, but it is something to be aware of.

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Aha, good point. I'm on Win98SE.

nebbie · Posted - Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:00 am

Good morning, Ozpeter,

Thanks for running the test. I have a Tascam commercial "no frills" player that I'm very happy with, also a friend with a Tascam recorder that is a very nice unit and produces excellent results. I guess great minds work alike, since the Tascam site is one of the first that I did check out, unfortunately I could not find the information I needed. I'm really not interested in a stand alone unit, since I already have a couple of those rigged for other situations/applications, but your test may point me in that direction. I may just end up having to buy a stand-alone unit to get the function that I need, although it's a bit "overkill".

Concerning the long burn time, I'm used to it and while frustrating at times, is just something I have to live with. I wish I could burn an entire 74-80 minute CD in about 1 second, without any quality loss or problems, but that will be in the next life.

Your point about not using USB2 and "Firewire" is well taken and, quite frankly, I hadn't thought about that, so it's a "head's up" for me....thanks. Unfortunately, I've already committed a new, separate system, that's dedicated exclusively to music processing and only has the USB2 recepticles, although I believe that a burner set up to flow data at the USB1 rate would work with them but at the slower USB1 rate, now only if I can find one in today's market that will meet that requirement. Further, your point about the softwear is well taken. Possibly some softwear may let me burn 1x, just as my existing softwear will allow. I hope this won't be a trial and error thing, where I have to keep buying burners until I find one that will work up to my requirements.

Thanks again, ozpeter, your input is greatly appreciated and has given me much to think about. I may revisit the Tascam site again, possibly find a dealer and talk to them about the problem.

If you think of anything else, let me know. In turn, I will let you know how things turn out.

Regards!

nebbie · Posted - Wed Jul 24, 2002 8:07 am

Hello Wildduck!

Thanks for your input. I hadn't really thought too much about the OS, but I guess that's a point for consideration. My existing system is also 98SE, unfortunately, I just bought this new dedicated system, so I'm stuck with XP and have to find a way to make it work. Of course, I may be getting ahead of myself, since there may be no problem at all. The new system should be delivered within the next week, so I'm going to dive into all this as soon as it arrives. I'm just getting my peripherals together now. However, I will now be a little aprehensive maybe even paranoid.

Seriously, thanks again.

jonrose · Location: USA

My first reaction when reading this thread was something pointed out elsewhere on this forum and in other places, as well - the possibility of dye-splatter.
So... I guess the question would be, can you still buy blanks? It's getting harder and harder to find 'slow-burn' discs, nowadays.
Just a thought...
:)

Best... -Jon

jamesp · Posted - Tue Jul 30, 2002 6:14 am

Most mastering engineers now use Plextor SCSI burners. These have been shown to have extremely low error rates and, in my experience, are reliable. The recommended model is the PX1210S which is a SCSI drive with 1X burning speed for real time work. It will also work at up to 12X if you want to run off some quick copies. It is available in both internal and external versions but you will need a SCSI card to run it. Most mastering engineers are using Sonic Solutions or Sadie systems which include SCSI - hence the popularity of this SCSI writer.

If you are really serious about quality then Plextor also make the Plexmaster drive which is a specialised mastering drive with speeds of between 1X and 8X and tweaked to give the lowest possible error rates. However, it costs around $2000.

I'd also question your CD plant's speed requirements. As long as you produce an error free CD master it makes no difference to the plant whether it was burned at 1X or 20X. I suspect that they've had to reject many masters made on cheaper burners with high error rates where, in general, the error rates will come down at lower speeds. With newer burners and media you will often find that you get the lowest error rates in the middle of the recorder's speed range.

I would add that I do very similar work to you with CEP and, so far, I have not had a single rejected master burned on the Plextor 1210S or Plextor PX124.

Cheers.

James.

Edited by - jamesp on 07/30/2002 06:16:32 AM

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Of course it had to happen - within an hour of posting on another (now deleted....) thread that I'd never had a verification failure with a CDR, one failed the verification program. Subsequent investigation revealed that it wasn't a read error (or at least, not as far as EAC was reporting), but three missing samples from the middle of the first track. All remaining samples were moved up three. This, to me, indicates that it's not impossible for the data to be incorrectly written, as opposed to unreadably written, and this I guess could be as much to do with a faulty read from the hard disk as to do with the CDR type or burn speed. The only moral I can draw (not for the first time, sorry...) is that to be quite sure of what's on your burnt CDs, verify them.

- Ozpeter

Syntrillium M.D. · Location: USA

ozpeter · Location: Australia

I doubt whether many people check other than the first of a run, Zita. As someone cheekily said here before, if there's a faulty one, just blame the client's CD player!