Review of Audition 3 in Norwegian press!

Yep, these forums are like going to a ghost town.... not much excitement...even with the new capability of midi recording, there just seems to be no excitement about it. I feel like I'm the only one who cares about midi recording. The Sonar forums are loaded with people talking about the new Sonar 7 program. Even Pro Tools people  still stand by their product. Except for a handful of people, it just seems so dead here.

Logic seems to be getting the most attention lately. Too bad it's for MAC only.

[was itself lifted out of HTML jargon]

My statement is correct, since we had never heard of journalists being embedded, certainly not in the way that TV and the Press were using that term during the Iraq war.

If somebody uses a generic term to describe something, then it hasn't been lifted from anywhere. And therefore its usage, if appropriate, is quite correct - QED.

I also did not that say nor imply that the origin of 'embedded' was HTML.

Yes you did:

But did you all see how the word 'embedded' was itself lifted out of HTML jargon...

Perhaps you should try reading back what you write occasionally. And don't try wriggling out of the messes you get yourself into, because nobody's fooled, even for one moment.

Yep, these forums are like going to a ghost town.... not much excitement...even with the new capability of midi recording, there just seems to be no excitement about it.

Perhaps that's because there's nothing to get excited about...

I feel like I'm the only one who cares about midi recording.

You may well be - I certainly don't. It's going to be a strictly minority thing.

The Sonar forums are loaded with people talking about the new Sonar 7 program.

And why not? It's a music-based program with music-based facilities and enhancements. Adobe shouldn't have bothered with MIDI at all - in an editing program it's a complete red herring, and confusing the heck out of people, I think.

Even Pro Tools people  still stand by their product.

That's different. That's people being forced to stand by bad financial misjudgements in terms of bang per buck. Audition represents a staggeringly better return on your money than PT ever will, but since these people have made the decision, then they feel that they have to defend it.

Except for a handful of people, it just seems so dead here.

There's nothing to stop people creating stuff, and putting it in the recordings showcase, is there? I can't say that I'm too surprised that there's little activity in other places though, although would you like it like the 'official' forum? All that's really happening there is complaints from a lot of people who are having trouble getting AA3.0 to work in the way they think it ought to - I think that it's quite good that most of the flack is there rather than here. But there are other reasons for a lack of activity too - the main one being the lack of any value-added content other than what's in the threads. If I had a bit more time, I might address some of this, but because of other committments, it's going to have to wait.

Logic seems to be getting the most attention lately. Too bad it's for MAC only.

"Too bad" would be right - Apple pulled the plug on the more popular PC version the moment they bought it. And didn't that hack off a lot of people?

On some forums poster rave about the products, I don't see that happening much on this forum or the Adobe forums either. They both seem to be a lot quieter that I expected.

Adding midi puts Audition into the same music production software category like ProTools, Cubase, Sonar, although it's at an entry level. It's simple to learn, easy to use, but is missing the GUI wow effect that Logic has. I have to admit, I really like the looks of Logic. Enough to buy it and a MAC ?? Not this week. But I do like it.

On some forums poster rave about the products, I don't see that happening much on this forum or the Adobe forums either. They both seem to be a lot quieter that I expected.

Adding midi puts Audition into the same music production software category like ProTools, Cubase, Sonar, although it's at an entry level.

Yup.  Steve talks about Au being an editor and not a music production tool, but maybe that's what he'd like it to be rather than what it is.  The metronome, the loops, the midi capacity such as it is, and above all the Multitracker - all of this has moved it well into the realm of music production.  I've been making music with it for eight years and haven't been hampered in anything I've wanted to do. 

Oh - add my small, qualified rave for the product here.  Yay! lol

On some forums poster rave about the products

I think most of the users here have been using AA/CEP for a long time now.  They too raved about the product at first, because it was something quite remarkable at the time.  However, it has finally settled down and much of what we've seen, in the more recent releases, has not really made that much difference to the basic program as most people use it - i.e. as a full featured audio editing tool.

They've added midi - so what?  

You say that you feel you are "the only one who cares about midi recording".  I don't think that's the case at all.  For myself, I use midi extensively, but any dedicated midi user is not going to buy AA, they're going to go for something like Sonar, CuBase or one of the other fully developed heavyweights, not a brand new release of an application which is totally unproven and is streets behind the leaders in functionality.  I haven't even looked at AA's midi in any depth.  What I did see didn't encourage me to look deeper. I'll stick with what I have and know works.  I suspect a lot of others are doing the same.

I never wanted midi in AA anyway (or even CEP, for that matter, it's something that's been talked about for a long time now) and like SteveG, I'm a bit disappointed they have done it.  OTOH, if that has kept the price down, I can't really complain.

What I would really like to see Adobe do is release a version, more akin to the original CE96.  A simple 2 track editor, but including some of the more useful editing and restoration tools that have since been added - but I think it more likely Hell will freeze over first and they will continue to release versions which become more and more bloated with things I don't want or need.  

As long as they can keep adding enough things to maintain my interest, I'll continue to buy - but they didn't convince me with AA2 (which I never bought) and have only just scraped over the line with AA3 (which I do have).  If they keep moving along the apparent path of a fully featured multitrack recording environment - including or excluding midi - then my wallet will stay in my pocket and it will be no more upgrades for me.

I have to admit, I really like the looks of Logic. Enough to buy it and a MAC ?? Not this week. But I do like it.

Different strokes... personally, I find Logic just about the most illogical application I have ever come across. It certainly wouldn't persuade me to invest in a Mac. YMMV.

I don't know how well Logic works, but I do like the GUI. Maybe someday I will make the conversion to a MAC, but I just got done building a very nice running Intel PC, just for the AA3 program, which in a way dictated what hardware I had to have. So Apple isn't the only one to play the "you must have the right hardware" game. Logic's use of the full screen for tracks is nice.

Yup.  Steve talks about Au being an editor and not a music production tool, but maybe that's what he'd like it to be rather than what it is.  The metronome, the loops, the midi capacity such as it is, and above all the Multitracker - all of this has moved it well into the realm of music production. 

When CEP was created inititally, David Johnson's specific intention was to produce an app that replicated a multitrack recorder, and it was use-agnostic - not specified in the slightest. Multitrack recorders also get used extensively in disciplines other than music production - film and video post, and radio being the obvious ones, but I'm sure that there are others - they are simply just another audio production tool.

And it's not that I don't use Audition for music production, because I do - it's just that MIDI sequencers aren't inherently musical, as far as I'm concerned, and have no place in an editing system.  And Adobe know that - which is why as a tool it is completely hidden when not required. And it is an editing system, not a music production one. Even Adobe have only claimed that this MIDI thing they've added is some sort of scratchpad, and not a production tool.

So if anybody is projecting Audition to be what he wants it to be, then it's you, I'm afraid! There may be many people around who wish that Audition was more than just an editor - but you should be very careful what you wish for, because if you get what you want, and you also upset the existing user base to the extent that they don't buy any more upgrades, it's sunk. And that's just what trying to compete with the much better-established products will achieve. That user-base is radio broadcasters, and despite what has been claimed, in the main MIDI and music production is not what they want or need. What they need is an editor that gives them the workflow necessary to get their product on air in the shortest time. What they don't need is a load of extra junk getting in the way.

So if you want to wreck Audition's chances of continuing as a viable product, you go on badgering Adobe about adding a load of music production junk that it doesn't need. But don't expect any sympathy at all from me when Adobe do the inevitable - and dump it completely when it doesn't sell to the broadcasters any more. Even though I'm not currently using it as a broadcast product very often, I keep the broadcasters' needs in mind just as much as my own - because I know who's really keeping the product cheap...

Everything Graeme says about Adobe and simple versions is true - although the broadcasters would love to see an updated CE2000 rather than the original CE, as would the broadcast trainers - rather more importantly. And if Adobe have any marketing sense at all, they will attend to this in short order.

Yep, these forums are like going to a ghost town.... not much excitement...even with the new capability of midi recording, there just seems to be no excitement about it. I feel like I'm the only one who cares about midi recording. The Sonar forums are loaded with people talking about the new Sonar 7 program. Even Pro Tools people  still stand by their product. Except for a handful of people, it just seems so dead here.

I've used the new midi features in 3.0 quite a bit.  Mostly for adding extra sounds to recorded audio.  I've programmed drum tracks by hand (without the use of a controller), as well as add a very small string/cello portion to a quiet acoustic recording of the song "Holy, Holy, Holy".  Before Audition 3.0 I had a recording of my Aunt singing a Christmas song that she had written.  I started out adding instrumentation to it in Reaper, but switched to Audition 3.0.  For this song I programed string, timpani, tambourine, cymbal rolls, chimes, and some strange mandolin sounding thing.  Electric guitar and real tambourine were recorded.  I can say that it may not be entirely believable, and it is certainly no where near the quality of a "real" recording of an orchestra.  But, as Durin has spoken elsewhere, the new midi capabilities are sufficient for playing with Midi and at least coming up with ideas.  Personally, I have no problem with it.

I am extremely happy with Audition.  I have considered changing to other software for tracking, but I've never been able to leave Audition successfully.  Sure there are problems here and there (for example, I really dislike the handling of multiple takes...it's created quite a few disasters for me) but mostly I believe Audition is very good at what it does.  The spectral editing has saved many recordings for me.

The problem with Audition remaining an Editor only program is it doesn't have much more it can do that it doesn't already do. It's reached it's peak as an editor. I can only do so much cutting and snipping to a file before I am done with it. The extra effects such as the Multi Band Compressor, Studio Reverb, EQ, ect.. are a great help. Being able to multi-track audio and midi in the same program is also great features.

As far as the midi "scratch pad" idea is, it is an extra benefit to those who know how to use it, and take it seriously. It has all the basics you need to make a lot of great music. True it doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles, but you don't really need all that fluff. Getting back to the basics is a good thing. Being lost in a pile of owner's manuals and instruction books, just confuses me. Audition's midi tool is simple to use. So simple it may not be taken seriously, but make no bones about it, depending on your skills and effort, you can make a lot of great sounding music with it.

The problem with Audition remaining an Editor only program is it doesn't have much more it can do that it doesn't already do. It's reached it's peak as an editor.

It almost goes without saying, but since Shakespeare said it rather eloquently in Hamlet, let me quote him:

"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your
philosophy."

I can certainly think of some more editing-related things... and indeed there is a list of them that the developers are aware of.

I'm sure they'll dream up more gidgets and gadgets, but I have what I need now, so there will be no complaining from me.

I liked the new midi features so much, I bought a new sound sample program. I now have the East West Quantum Leap Symphonic Orchestra "Gold Complete" program. Talk about a great combination of music production tools.. Gold Complete and AA3... I couldn't be happier with the results I've been getting using these two programs together.

I can certainly think of some more editing-related things... and indeed there is a list of them that the developers are aware of.

Hi Steve

Can you share your list with forum members. 

Charlie

Can you share your list with forum members. 

Since most of the list hasn't come from me, it wouldn't be entirely fair to do so. But to give you some sort of an idea, I'll give you a clue about one of them. At the moment, you can only select one area and operate on it. How about being able to select several areas at once, and operate on all of them together?

The moment you start thinking along these lines, quite a lot of interesting consequential possibilities arise... but I'll leave that to your imagination.

And, just because there are all these good ideas around doesn't mean in the slightest that the developers will, or will even be able to, implement them. And that's why Adobe are tight-lipped about what will be in a new version until they're absolutely sure that they can deliver it.

[totally, utterlly, absolutely and completely]

Er no .. you'll never hear a TV announcer say that a plane has been skyjacked, so your impression is totally, utterlly, absolutely and completely wrong.

OTOH, I don't think that anybody's ascribed a new meaning to the word 'tautology'... 

Of course, it is very, very common to use repetition for emphasis. Actually quite valid in fact, even when your point isn't... 

And considering a definition of tautology is needless repetition, the original statement may not be tautological at all. (Although the second and third repetitions are probably a little unnecessary).

My first paragraph above contains two repetitions, only one of them being tautological...

(I need to find better ways of using my time!)