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Topic: Live multitrack recording - need opinions on the mix  (Read 460 times)
« on: October 29, 2011, 02:52:40 AM »
Eric Snodgrass Offline
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This is a multitrack recording of a band done in late August.  The band is playing on a shallow, wide stage, leaving the lead singer about 5 feet from the drums (which themselves were about a foot from the back wall of the stage). 
2 guitars, bass, drums, and 3 vocals.  It was a reunion show and the group hadn't played in front of an audience together for at least 13 years. 

I've been listening to these tracks so long that I need another set of ears to listen. 
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Eric Snodgrass
Reply #1
« on: October 29, 2011, 05:52:00 PM »
Bert Offline
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It's not at all the type of music I feel familiar with - thus my impression may be biased. While there is some space in the instruments, my impression of the voices is their clear but very dry sound. They seem very focused as they sound rather mono. I would try to give a very small amount of reverb to the singers. It should be so little, that you do not notice it as a reverb, but just as a space enhancement. You may also add slightly different amounts to L and R. Sorry - very personal opinion.
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Reply #2
« on: October 29, 2011, 06:17:21 PM »
Eric Snodgrass Offline
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It's not at all the type of music I feel familiar with - thus my impression may be biased. While there is some space in the instruments, my impression of the voices is their clear but very dry sound. They seem very focused as they sound rather mono. I would try to give a very small amount of reverb to the singers. It should be so little, that you do not notice it as a reverb, but just as a space enhancement. You may also add slightly different amounts to L and R. Sorry - very personal opinion.
I'm looking for personal opinions, so no need to apologize.
I do have the vocalists panned a little bit, but maybe they do need a bit more space.  I'll play with some reverb for them but I hesitate only because there is so much bleed into their mics from the drums and guitars that I'm concerned that the reverb might negatively affect the vocals.  It couldn't hurt to try a vocal plate, though.
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Eric Snodgrass
Reply #3
« on: October 30, 2011, 02:47:48 PM »
Bert Offline
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Eric, I think we both are going to suffer the same disappointment. There is rarely someone giving his personal opinion to the showcase. About one year ago I put 2 interesting examples of live recordings of 2 different violins recorded under the very same recordings conditions of very talented students. There are 1135 viewers on that threat but zero comment ! I hope my recordings were not that lousy that no one dared to transmit this to me.
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Reply #4
« on: October 31, 2011, 03:17:50 AM »
Eric Snodgrass Offline
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After following Bert's advice I've played with the vocals some, spacing them and adding a hint of reverb. I also did some mix EQ tweaking.  I'm wondering if the EQ has led to there being too much bass frequencies now. 
Let me know what you think.
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Eric Snodgrass
Reply #5
« on: October 31, 2011, 09:43:06 AM »
Bert Offline
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This second version already comes much closer to my imagination. Although I have no access to the multiple tracks for the mixdown, I could not resist to tamper a bit with the stereo track. What about this ?
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Reply #6
« on: October 31, 2011, 09:53:29 AM »
Bert Offline
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Sorry - that was the wrong track. Listen to this one:

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Reply #7
« on: October 31, 2011, 10:28:18 AM »
SteveG Offline
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Eric, I think we both are going to suffer the same disappointment. There is rarely someone giving his personal opinion to the showcase.

Yes this is true, unfortunately. I haven't had anything like enough time to listen to anything much for a while (and also an ear condition that didn't help), and at present listening time on anything other than headphones is at a bit of a premium, otherwise I would.

Quote
There are 1135 viewers on that thread but zero comment ! I hope my recordings were not that lousy that no one dared to transmit this to me.

Unfortunately I suspect that the vast majority of those hits were search engine bots...

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Reply #8
« on: October 31, 2011, 01:46:32 PM »
Bert Offline
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Quote
Yes this is true, unfortunately. I haven't had anything like enough time to listen to anything much for a while (and also an ear condition that didn't help), and at present listening time on anything other than headphones is at a bit of a premium, otherwise I would.

Steve, my hit was certainly not against you, but there are a lot of passive readers that might open their mouth too ! I could even stand odd opinions.
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Reply #9
« on: October 31, 2011, 03:15:12 PM »
Eric Snodgrass Offline
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Sorry - that was the wrong track. Listen to this one:
Nice, Bert!  Expanding the stereo field some more really cleaned up the center clutter when the guitars start to kick in.  It gives the vocals and the guitars some more space in the mix. 
Did you only expand the stereo field?  I'd like to move in this direction for the remaining tracks. 
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Eric Snodgrass
Reply #10
« on: October 31, 2011, 09:15:28 PM »
Bert Offline
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Quote
Did you only expand the stereo field?  I'd like to move in this direction for the remaining tracks. 

That's exactly what I did. My experience is that often you can fool the ear that way since artefacts are less obvious when the ear is given a broad stage. I took the ratio 100/-30 as the preset in AA1.0. 
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Reply #11
« on: November 01, 2011, 12:17:25 AM »
Phil G Howe Offline
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Drummers! Can't live with 'em..., can't... shoot 'em!

I think you have done as well as can be done with what you have to work with, but an over-ambitious drummer can lay waste to the potential of such a mic'ing set-up with a few cymbal crashes, and more volume on the percussion than is really needed. You can make some minor mods to things like stereo image, but you're not going to do much balancing if you have so much mic bleed.

As far as giving opinions, here's one: Those harmony vocals are sometimes off-key! The lead voice and the tenor vocal are decent enough, but when the high baritone joins the mix, she's mostly really flat! I don't think that there's anything that you can do to fix that.... Can you see what it sounds like without her?
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I'd never allow myself to be cloned. I just couldn't live with myself...
Reply #12
« on: November 01, 2011, 02:28:21 AM »
Eric Snodgrass Offline
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This was a reunion of a group that hadn't played together since 1998.  It had been about that long since the drummer had played and he was making up for lost time.  The acoustics of the space were also a big factor in the drum bleed, with a small stage, hard wall behind the drummer and wooden ceiling.  This is a common problem with this venue, therefore the drum bleed was just unavoidable. 

As to the harmonies, yes, they are out of tune at times.  They only had two rehearsals to get it back together so they are rusty.  Actually, one harmony note (the most obviously flat one) is intentional.  That's the note they wanted on the album and that's the one she sang in concert.  There is no way I can delete her from the mix. If this was going to be for professional release then I would start correcting pitches and cleaning up vocal entrances a bit more.   

Per Bert's mix I'm going to play with some stereo separation and give the mix some space. 
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Eric Snodgrass
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