good packet writing?

I'll try to make an understandable reply; it has to go back to the original post itself.

My concern was with what I learned back in 2002. This may or may not have been true, but I know it came from more than one source.

Installing packet writing software on one's computer caused problems - it disabled or interfered with something else. I think it was writing regular audio CDs that suffered, but I don't remember for sure.

When I got no replies for a few days, I though that perhaps noone knew anything, or this was going to be one of my inquires to which noone wanted to bother replying. I decided to experiment, one step at a time.

If this facility was already functional, then there was no question of installing it and causing a problem. If I found I had to do some kind of setup, such as the first time one uses Internet Explorer or Windows Media Player, I would stop before suffering  the chance of letting the application take over.

Turns out it is already fully functional, simply because Windows is installed and functional. Step two was writing some files to a CD-RW. This went fine, as did copying  them back, and replacing them with later versions.  This seems good to me.

Replies eventually came, but unless I'm forgetting what I read, they have all dealt with something I did not ask about. By the time I read any, I had already established proof of concept. If I had not, I would have been more concerned about potential problems suggested in the replies than I am after gaining my own experience.

There is considerable opinion that this isn't a very useful facility, as in "who would care if it works or not?" and considerable opinion that it may not be very reliable.

I would not try to push it upon anyone who doesn't want it, but I think most people understand the "different strokes .... " viewpoint. I do take the possibility of unreliability seriously, but I'm not convinced this is the same as things that used to be. Is the "Live File System" the same, apparently fragile, thing that used to sell as packet writing? Maybe but not necessarily. Right now it seems worth a trial period, with me paying attention to reliability.

I really would find a permanently connected USB drive inconveniently in the way. I'm also not  sure it that would be any better than an additional internal drive, used only for backup. I though about that more than once over the years but the fact is that an internal drive is always powdered up, suffering much of the same ware and tear as the other drives, whether it is accessed very often or not. Those drives are not exceedingly reliable, they usually need to be replace every so many hours. Would a drive permanently attached via USB be any different?

I have no objections against a flash drive permanently stuck in a USB jack. I looked at them early this last week when I was out and about where they are sold. It was simply a question of spend $10 or spend nothing because I already have a supply of optical disks that seem to be doing the job.

So the summary is that everyone's advice, however sound, isn't about what I wanted to know. I do appreciate the information that I need to be wary of data failure due simply to the nature of the file system. If that indeed proves to be faulty, I will change to a flash drive.

Installing packet writing software on one's computer caused problems

That was a long time ago; but in my experience some such software caused various problems with the system - not specifically to do with CD writing.  Since then it has been my practice to uninstall it from any machines which were delivered with it installed, whether that is still justified or not.  None of my users has missed it, ever.

I need to be wary of data failure due simply to the nature of the file system. If that indeed proves to be faulty, I will change to a flash drive.

I am bemused by the concept of a backup which you don't mind losing because it's on a medium less reliable than that which is being backed up.

Paul

I've lost a few backups made on hard drives and on CD-R because they just would not work when I wanted them. It was not a matter of the backup technique, older and newer copies still worked, just not the version I happened to want. I've also run across the identical problem more than once with backups to very expensive, multi-volume tape made daily by large corporations. That's when it get exciting.

I won't repeat what I've already wrote about the data I want this for and why a failure, although not desirable, is rather unlikely to be any kind of disaster.

Is the "Live File System" the same, apparently fragile, thing that used to sell as packet writing?

In a nutshell - yes.  Which is why most of us wouldn't go near it with a bargepole.  It may well be that MS have managed to integrate it with the OS better than earlier versions, but that doesn't change the nature of the media itself.

I'm all for not spending money unnecessarily, but a 4GB usb stick (or SD card) really costs very little and would be far more reliable, in almost every way, than any optical media.

Its not the nature of the media, it's the file system, but I take your point. I may well end up with a flash drive instead but right now I'm experimenting with what I have. It is the least of my difficulties anyway. Not being able to get information about the hard drive situation is much more significant right now. I don't know what I need to fix since I can't get bad test results from anything.

I did find the battery voltage in the BIOS, (refering to the other thread) for whatever it is worth. The illustration in the MB manual says 2.99V, with no comment. The actual BIOS screen says 3.10V. I do think the guy who sold me the computer mention putting in a new MB battery anyway, but he can be very hard to get to.

If all you fear mongers prove right, I'll let you know.

If all you fear mongers prove right, I'll let you know.

It's absolutely not about 'fear mongering'. It's about making a sensible choice, given the available information.

And we'd all say that you're not scoring too highly there, one way or another...

Its not the nature of the media, it's the file system,

Actually, it's mainly the interaction of the two; the file system is too sensitive to damage caused by media failure.

But by all means use up your CDs.  Personally I'd put music on them, but whatever.

Paul

Perhaps no one cares, but I said I would report back.

From the middle of June until the end of October, a CD-R with the Live File system was used for backup of just those long term files I change frequently, or change at least every now and then. Several times it was quite useful that I had the latest file version available to restore. The difficulties that led to my wanting to restore were probably mainly due to the mostly old hardware on which the Win7 system was built. The DVD-RW drive in which the back-up disk spent most of its time was new last January and did not itself give any problems.

When I wanted to use the DVD drive for something else, I had to "eject" the disk, which led to the OS's maddening slow process of "closing the session" so the disk could be read on a different computer. There seem to be no options to this, one just has to accept it.

Since I had no interest in this possibility of wanting to read it on another computer, I considered it a bother and a complete waste of time, but time seemed to be the only real downside. Whatever it writes to the disk for this session closing must be very small relative to the overhead on standard multi-session CD-R. At the end of October there was still s little more than 50% of the first CD-R's capacity available.

Disaster, of a sort, finally struck. I ejected the disk and the drawer just opened. The next time I tried to use it, the system complained that the disk was inaccessible. Fortunately I was trying to add to, not read from the disk, so all I lost was about half of the ten cents the disk cost.

I tried again with another. There is an initial format of the entire 700MB that seems to take a long time but this is only once per disk. I started with adding all the 12 to 15 files I frequently use, then updated as needed. Before long I wanted to use the drive for other DVDs and the same thing happened again. The system itself seemed to have forgotten about properly closing and then can't read when the disk goes back in. Or maybe something else is happening.

Out of curiosity, I downloaded and tried IsoBuster, an optical disk data recovery tool. This is shareware and most of the options are available without buying, at least according to the web site.

IsoBuster has no difficulty reading the disks and displaying the contents. Apparently Live File system data is not something available without buying, even thought it is not listed in the restrictions on the web site. So, I could not be certain the data is really available, but IsoBuster definitely implies that it is ... if I just come up with the fee.

While that isn't unreasonable, there isn't anything on the disks worth $30 to me, or worth anything at all. I was simply curious. Since IsoBuster supposedly works by bypassing the OS access routines, the problem seems to me to be not the "fragile" file system but Windows itself. Perhaps it is just another example of how MS bends over so far for commercial interests that OS end users are left with a less than fully functional computing system.

So, I now have a USB flash drive stuck in a USB port. It is certainly faster, and thus somewhat more convenient, but it seems rather like a waste and overkill to me. It will take essentially forever to overcome the cost difference between the CD-Rs and the flash drive, for what would be very little advantage if the system didn't seemed to have forgotten how to do Live File disks. It could be hardware related, I suppose, but since the problem started I've used the DVD-RW drive probably more than the sum total of all its previous use and it doesn't have difficulties with anything else.