FLV Editing

Nor do I quite get the cross fade bit . . . Are you talking automatic crossfades?  [snip]  (your quote: 'weren't useable at all')

I never managed to get a decent, flexible inaudible MV crossfade out of Audition at all before 3.0, never mind whether it was automated or not. This wasn't the envelopes as such, it was just the way that they were 'controlled'. Weird stuff happened - things jumped up and down, and the whole system didn't follow any logic that I was conversant with.

Don't mean to simply celebrate my denseness & beat this to death but you are talking about dropping Clip B on top of Clip A on a single track in Multitrack view, as opposed to putting Clip A in track #1 and assigning Clip B to track #2? then controlling crossfade via envelopes?


if you are talking about how AA treated integration of layered clips  . . . for which, if I remember correctly, your only two control parameters might be 'auto zero cross edit' (purely go/nogo) and smooth edit by crossfade [ms amount] . . . and admittedly those might actually apply to Edit View . . . don't remember . . .crossfade of multiple clips within a single track in MV; I'm not sure the issue is fixed yet.

and it's been long enough since I tried that that I don't think, anymore, of it as an 'issue' to be repaired  (though somewhat on point to this is I did have oppurtunity prior to 6/9 post to play around with this . . . which why I'm not sure the 'issue' is fixed.

Don't mean to simply celebrate my denseness & beat this to death but you are talking about dropping Clip B on top of Clip A on a single track in Multitrack view, as opposed to putting Clip A in track #1 and assigning Clip B to track #2? then controlling crossfade via envelopes?

Actually, both - and if you download the demo of 3.0, you'll see what the (rather dramatic) difference is...

if you are talking about how AA treated integration of layered clips  . . . for which, if I remember correctly, your only two control parameters might be 'auto zero cross edit' (purely go/nogo) and smooth edit by crossfade [ms amount] . . . and admittedly those might actually apply to Edit View . . . don't remember . . .crossfade of multiple clips within a single track in MV; I'm not sure the issue is fixed yet.

Oh, it most certainly is...

and it's been long enough since I tried that that I don't think, anymore, of it as an 'issue' to be repaired  (though somewhat on point to this is I did have oppurtunity prior to 6/9 post to play around with this . . . which why I'm not sure the 'issue' is fixed.

It's hardly worth me trying to describe what the differences are - to explain all of it would take longer than I'm prepared to spend. All I can say to sum it up is that everything you could ever reasonably expect to do with crossfades, both in a single track and across multiple tracks has been comprehensively provided graphically - you don't even have to use the automation system to do it. It really does do some pretty neat tricks now - making comparisons with the older version is like comparing chalk and cheese.

Incidentally, for those of you who think it's simply drag handles on the crossfades, try right-clicking on them - you get linear, cosine and linking options there, which is where a lot of the extra flexibility lies.

The developers put a lot of effort into everything to do with crossfades, and it has certainly paid off - this was a major weakness previously. Now all they have to do is take the same approach with drop-ins (which presently hack off a lot of people), and things will improve a lot. I don't care personally about the drop-ins, because I don't use them, but I most certainly recognise the pain they cause others. It's somewhat tedious, as in previous incarnations they worked rather better, and more like people expected them to, and nobody has ever explained why they had to muck about with the system at all. But, however I look at it, I think that it's stuff like this they should be fixing, instead of playing about with a deeply flawed MIDI plugin.

before I ever started commenting on V3 I had purchased a new license . . .  (after experiences with V2 (and the 'acrobat reader' issues associated with V1) it is doubtful I'd ever willingly install a demo of any adobe product on any of my working machines)

though I suppose my 2nd pass at a question had less to do with what was fixed then with what needed to be fixed.

I am still not clear on whether you are saying that manual manipulation of amplitude envelopes was dysfunctional in earlier versions. Primarily interested in that from a historic perspective . . . and to be honest with the way I use the graphic envelopes I do not find them 'broken' now.  (still using CE2K & AA 1.5 regularly)

As far as what I think of as cross fade options it has been long enough since I even thought about doing that in AA that I do not remember why I do not.  When I was talking about 'automatic' I was not talking automation (which to me is a different thing) but rather some process you initiate with no further control over parameters, a 'macro' if you will. 

Simple crossfades I've executed in MV with clips on different tracks using graphic amplitude envelops.  More complicated ones in EV using full range of tools, but typically if a lot (a flexible quantity) of crossfading is imminent I'll use a different program . .. one with four primary options, grouped in pairs, plus allows one to draw and save a more complex curve and ability control separate durations for each clip. 

Of course my 'might not be fixed' is probably a function of the one time I layered clips in recent memory and outcome was other then I expected based on past performance.  At which point I simply inserted a new track, unlayered one clip and produced expected result with amplitude envelopes.

It is possible that new fade options might save me some time (I had noticed them in right click window had just not explored them, based primarily on fact that I had not been using cross fades in AA previously) . . . And this is one of the reasons I keep returning to this forum . . . in learning about features of which I was unfamiliar I also review 'how' I do things . . . which can be just as valuable

It is doubtful that 'fixing' the crossfade macro will convince me, by itself, to upgrade any more AA licenses . . . but it definitely goes on the plus side of the balance, but also supports my general contention that Adobe communication about their products is dysfunctional at best, and that crap just wears me out . . .

anyway the whole flv thread, the part having nothing to do with flv, has now proven to be beneficial, to me.  The cross fade comment is definitely worth a hearty thanks to Steve. (yet again)

I am still not clear on whether you are saying that manual manipulation of amplitude envelopes was dysfunctional in earlier versions. Primarily interested in that from a historic perspective . . .

I think it was - simply on the grounds that if you put tone on a track, split it, and tried to crossfade between the separate pieces you couldn't do this without amplitude bounce - or if you could, it took a long time to get it right. This was largely due to it being implemented as an envelope function.

Simple crossfades I've executed in MV with clips on different tracks using graphic amplitude envelops.  More complicated ones in EV using full range of tools, but typically if a lot (a flexible quantity) of crossfading is imminent I'll use a different program . .. one with four primary options, grouped in pairs, plus allows one to draw and save a more complex curve and ability control separate durations for each clip.

That's almost a description of what it does now. Having thought about it, I can describe the basic function quite easily - usage is an extension of that.

If you split a clip, and then try overlapping the split parts by dragging them, at the overlap points a pair of matching curves appear, with a handle on each side, positioned just before/after the join. You can drag the handles up and down or sideways to alter the curves, unlink the curves, alter the laws of them, and draw either one out so that it's a different length. And this is independent of the track's volume envelope as well, so you could do all of this over a gradual increase or decrease in volume if you wanted to. The most important thing about the curves is that they are parameter-defined - this means that as long as you note the type and number of the curve and its duration, it's very easy to replicate it exactly on another track.

The whole process makes completely inaudible crossfades very easy to achieve - and recently, that's been pretty useful!

The whole process makes completely inaudible crossfades very easy to achieve - and recently, that's been pretty useful!

With all the multitrack work I do, I'm starting to wonder how I ever lived without this.  Multitrack editing par excellence is now mine like never before, and I'm using it more and more.

Incidentally, for those of you who think it's simply drag handles on the crossfades, try right-clicking on them - you get linear, cosine and linking options there, which is where a lot of the extra flexibility lies.

Just when you think you have right-clicked everywhere! I'm more than happy with the crossfades and their flexibility but I'm gonna eagerly check this out out at the first opportunity.

Now all they have to do is take the same approach with drop-ins (which presently hack off a lot of people), and things will improve a lot

I use dropins a lot and yes they can be fiddley if you are not careful (but I guess so is brain surgery for some) Note that last bit is a joke.
I guess they were trying to emulate an audio tape dropin maybe? 
An improvement to make it less fiddley would no doubt be a good thing.

I am still not clear on whether you are saying that manual manipulation of amplitude envelopes was dysfunctional in earlier versions

Not for me - this was a strong point for the work I was doing

means that as long as you note the type and number of the curve and its duration, it's very easy to replicate it exactly on another track

Like Oretez

in learning about features of which I was unfamiliar

for me this is two things I've learnt today.

I did a lot in MV in AA2 and like MusicConductor for me MV is the best - I do almost everything in MV

Incidentally, for those of you who think it's simply drag handles on the crossfades, try right-clicking on them - you get linear, cosine and linking options there, which is where a lot of the extra flexibility lies.

Just when you think you have right-clicked everywhere! I'm more than happy with the crossfades and their flexibility but I'm gonna eagerly check this out out at the first opportunity.

To be fair, I did have something of a head start with this...