Can't get my mics to work right

Hey all, I've been producing a weekly show for work, and I am unsatisfied with my audio quality. I have:

Shure Beta 58A
http://www.shure.com/ProAudio/Products/WiredMicrophones/us_pro_Beta58A_content

Plugged into my:
http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/MobilePreUSB-main.html

I record from my laptop using a program called Wave Pad (I've tried using Adobe Soundbooth as well and have had similar frustrations).

While the set-up works great when recording one person whose mouth is very close to the microphone, for my weekly show I need to record two people from a distance of four or five feet (and the microphone is about two feet lower than their mouths). Because of this, the actor with the lower voice is hardly audible (while the higher-voiced fellow is picked up just fine).

To remedy this, I purchased two lapel mics:
http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATR288W-Wireless-Microphone-System/dp/B00006HO3R/ref=pd_bbs_5?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1207802871&sr=8-5

I clipped one to each of my actors, around the middle of the neck, three inches or so below their mouths. I first tried plugging the receiver directly into the camera.

This is my camera:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000U8HBRW/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

This picked up one of the voices just fine, but the other one was hardly audible (I was trying to have both of them transmit on the same channel). I quickly realized that this would not work, so I switched one to channel B, but my camera only has one microphone jack, so I had to plug both receivers into my pre-amp (one receiver set to channel A and the other to channel B).

The problem is that, while both microphones work, and while my amplifier picks up both voices, the sound is incredibly low in volume. I cranked up the channel 1 and 2 signal all the way, and it was only then that I was able to hear the faintest whisper (with a whole lot of background noise). I tried using two different computers, and recording with two different programs, and I have the same problem--the amplifier records at a horribly low volume, which it does not do for my Shure.

Last week, I ended up recording one voice with the wireless lavier mic while also recording with my Shure mic plugged into my pre-amp. They both ended up recording audio at slightly different speeds, and I found it impossible to mix the two tracks together to get a full sound. I ended up using my Shure microphone audio because it is the only one that picked up both voices, and yet I still have my audio-quality problem (I hate having to amplify all the audio to get anything to sound reasonable).

My question is, what do I need to do to set myself up with a good audio capture set-up. I would prefer to keep using the things I have, or add to them, rather than buy a whole new set-up. I can spend money, but I'd like to find a moderately priced way to do it (I don't need the absolute best on the market, though knowledge of what the best is would come in handy). Considering my boss jokingly talked about hiring a "professional" to figure out how to do it, and that there is a hint of truth behind every joke, I would really like to figure this one out, heh.

Brandon

Taking things in order, my opinion is....
1. The Shure mic is unsuitable for recording at a distance. It is designed for close working and will have a serious bass roll-off at a distance. Depending on the venue, the directional properties may not be suitable.
2. I don't know the Mic-Pre, but it seems a reasonable unit to use.
3. The Audio Technica radio mics don't look particularly high spec., and the description tells me very little about them or their performance. I presume the receiver produces an unbalanced output at mic level. If so, the two receivers should be fed to the balanced mic inputs of the Mic-Pre via suitable cables. You may have to get someone who knows what they are doing to make these up.
4. You will need to be able to monitor what you are doing, so you will need to sort out some sensible monitoring, eg some decent headphones, appropriate to the surroundings.
5. Getting a professional in might be not too silly. Finding one might be difficult. A good one will probably have horror stories about radio microphones and lavalier mics. 

3. The Audio Technica radio mics don't look particularly high spec., and the description tells me very little about them or their performance. I presume the receiver produces an unbalanced output at mic level.

I think you're correct - I only have one AT mic of this sort, (AT803b) and that costs about as much as that entire package does! It's quite a good mic - but there again, it's not a radio mic per se - you have to add all the radio stuff if you want to use it like that. Using radio mics in the way the OP is is quite common, but invariably it works miles better with decent mics/transmitters, and diversity receivers to cut out the inevitable dead spots. So, you have to be prepared to spend a bit on this if you want a better result.

Well, see the thing is, my boss is willing to pay for stuff--that works. I really don't want to say, hey boss, can you buy me this mic instead, because the last two you bought didn't work, only to have him say, well how do we know these new ones will work?. All the reviews of the two lavalier mics I bought are good, and I think rather that there is something wrong with my set-up. What I can't understand is why the sound is so low in volume ONLY when the receivers are plugged into my pre-amp. When they are plugged into the camera, the volume is just fine (though the quality is a little off).

I have both receivers plugged into the mobile pre-amp, in the channel 1 and 2 slots. The problem is that they are both wireless, and there is no option to convert them to wired. (unless there is some sort of adapter I do not know of, because they both have antennas that unscrew).

I can't monitor while recording because I am one of the actors in the show.

I don't think I was being particularly clear. It sounds as though you may be plugging an unbalanced mic level output from the radio mic into a line level, possibly balanced input on the mic pre. What I think you need to do is to find a lead that will connect the radio mic output into the XLR  mic inputs of the mic pre, and you also will need to switch off the phantom power in the mic pre.

I may be completely wrong with this, but I'm guessing based on the fact that the wireless mic works into a camcorder, which I presume is mic level input.

I was a little surprised at how little info Audio Technica give on the radio mic receiver. Why the frequency response is quoted as N/A seems ominous too.

My guess would be that someone who knows what they are doing could probably sort all this out with what you have.

For someone to make recommendations about alternative equipment, they really would either need much more info about the surroundings, how you are working etc., or to be there.

If you can't monitor while doing the actual recording, you do need to monitor a pretend session with just the other actor, swapping mics.

It might be better to aim for recording two separate simultaneous tracks through the same 'soundcard' and get the levels right later.

Thanks Wildduck, but I do not understand your instructions above (forgive me, I am a n00b). Are you saying I need to buy an adapter or something and plug my receiver into it, and then plug it into my amplifier? I have no gain or other settings to adjust on my receiver or transmitter, and the only things I can fiddle with on my amplifier are channel 1 and 2 gain (which are cranked up all the way).

Here is how I record my audio:

I use Wave Pad to do my audio editing, primarily:

http://www.nch.com.au/wavepad/masters.html

I have used Adobe Soundbooth too, thinking that it would solve my problems, but alas, to no avail.

I do my recordings on Thursday nights (am about to do one here in a few hours). I record a video review for the website I work at--we review videos submitted to the website. Myself and a co-worker are the hosts, and we sit in a small room with the camera about five feet away and the Shure mic on a table below us. There are no baffles in the room and we have to wait until the air conditioning in the building turns off before recording.

I basically record the audio using Wave Pad on my laptop. Then, when the shoot is done, I transfer it to my desktop and edit it. I will usually have to amplify it by 200% or so. Then I will grab an audio sample from the noise and then weed out all the noise. And that is basically all I do--I'll then i import it into Premiere and match it by frame to my video until it looks right.

The bits of information we're lacking have to do with the phrase "plugged into".
We need to know what jack on your wireless receiver is plugged into what port on your m-audio rig using what kind of cable.  Also, if you have documentation for your wireless mic, what is the output spec for that?

When you plug the wireless mics into your camcorder, what kind of cable, connections, and port on the camera are you using?

Mmmm, ok let's see:

In my camera, there is just one little port on the very front labeled "mic". I simply plug my receiver, using cables that came with my lavalier set, from the "mike out" jack in the receiver to the "mic" port on the camera. Alas, I have only one "mic" port on my camera.

With my pre-amp, it has 4 ports: Channel 1 and Channel 2 mic, and Channel 1 and Channel 2 inst/line. When I use my Shure Beta 58A, I plug it into the Channel 1 Mic port (big circle, three prongs). With my lavalier mics, I run the cords that came with them from the receiver (plugged into MIKE OUT) into the Channel 1 inst/line port using an adapter (Mini-plug to 1/4 Adapter). All of these can be seen in the photos  on the amazon page linked above.

Yes I still have the documentation, and this is what it says:

Transmitter:
Operating Frequencies:
T13
T24
T57
T68
TVHF

Receiver:
Operating Frequencies:
T13
T24
T57
T68
TVHF

Thanks again for the help!

With my lavalier mics, I run the cords that came with them from the receiver (plugged into MIKE OUT) into the Channel 1 inst/line port using an adapter (Mini-plug to 1/4 Adapter).

Which is exactly what Wildduck suspected.  You are are running a microphone level signal from your mic pack to a line level input on your preamp.  You need to get that into mic input, not a line input.  Microphone signals are much lower level and needs more amplification.  You need to find a way to plug your wireless rigs into the mic inputs on your preamp.  You should be in good shape then.  It might require a custom cable.  I would take a look at the stereo mic input on the preamp - that might be the easiest connection to match up to.

But that doesn't help me then, because I have two lavalier mics, but only one Stereo Mic input on my preamp, just like my camera.

What should I buy to fix this? A new pre-amp? Some sort of different audio mixing device?

You might try something like

http://www.zzounds.com/item--HOSXVM4

to connect the output of the radio mic receiver to the XLR input of the mic pre. If it works you will need two of these.

Alternatively, it might be better to remove the wireless transmitter and receiver from the equation and in that case I think you will need a pair of Female 1/8" jack connectors to  male XLR cables. This would connect the lavalier mic to the mic pre directly. This might have the advantage of keeping the mic connections balanced throughout, and give much better noise performance and reliability.

Zemlin's suggestion is that you should get a connecting cable that has 2 mono 1/8" female sockets connected to one stereo male 1/8" plug, or if using the wireless stuff in the system, 2 male plugs to one stereo male plug. This would plug into the stereo mic input on the mic pre. I assume but don't know that this would give the two channels with levels separately controlled by the two knobs to give you a two channel feed into the PC. Someone who has one of these m-audio devices might pop up here to say whether this is correct. But first, you really do need to find someone who can sell you or make up cables.

Sorry about all the mights. It sounds as if you only need the right connecting cables. Someone on site with a bit of expertise could probably have this up and running in about 30 minutes, so I hope you can get it going for next Thursday.

What are the connectors on the ends of the cable that came with your mics? The USB Pre has two XLR 3 pin sockets for mics. Those are what you need to plug the cables from your wireless mic receivers into to get the correct levels into your PC.

Thanks again all, I really appreciate all your help!

My Shure Beta 58 has a 3-pin connector, and from it I get great sound. My Lavalier mics (and receivers) have connectors that look like regular headphone connectors. In order to plug them into the amp, I have had to use an adapter and then plug them into the ch1/2 inst line.

I originally wanted to use wired lapel mikes, but my boss thought the wires would get in teh way of teh actors, and he really wanted me to use wireless ones. These were the best I could find for a reasonable price, so we went with them. I hope, if I can get them working, that I don't find out that the quality sucks.

Those cables you linked to me Wildduck look like they just might work. I went ahead and ordered two of them, and I hope this fixes the problem. Since the sound is picked up just fine on the camera, I have a sneaking suspicion that the problem might lie in the adapters I've been using to plug them into the pre-amp.

As for someone to make cables for me, alas, I don't know anyone who makes cables. But I am really hoping these new cables I bought will do it I'll let you know either way.