Vinyl cleaning with woodglue???

[woodglue]

Yahoo hosts a forum on vinyl restoration. One of the latest contributions is on the subject of vinyl cleaning. What surprised me was the suggested fluid with which vinyl was to be cleaned: woodglue. See this thread: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheVinylSolutionDiscussionGroup/message/5764.

I can think of a number of reasons NOT to apply woodglue to vinyl, and I'm not even sure if it's not a practical joke, but I would like to know if any of you vinyl restorers did use or still uses woodglue for vinyl cleaning?

I can think of a number of reasons NOT to apply woodglue to vinyl, and I'm not even sure if it's not a practical joke, but I would like to know if any of you vinyl restorers did use or still uses woodglue for vinyl cleaning?

There used to be a product (the name of which I can't recall) that was sold for cleaning records and worked on the same principle - you spread it over the record grooves, waited for it to dry and then peeled it off.

It's not a practical joke - there are people who do use this method, although I wouldn't myself. 

The material is polyvinyl alcohol, widely used by manufacturers as a temporary protective coating against scratching (i.e. during shipping) for things like laboratory equipment and automobile finishes. I don’t know of anyone selling it in small quantities for home use any longer, but it is possible to buy the dry material and 'cook' your own solution. This is somewhat like making pudding, except that you add alcohol (preferably ethanol) and glycerine. It can be messy.

I would think that rubber cement would be much more appropriate than any kind of wood glue I've ever seen.

The material is polyvinyl alcohol, widely used by manufacturers as a temporary protective coating against scratching (i.e. during shipping) for things like laboratory equipment and automobile finishes. I don’t know of anyone selling it in small quantities for home use any longer, but it is possible to buy the dry material and 'cook' your own solution. This is somewhat like making pudding, except that you add alcohol (preferably ethanol) and glycerine. It can be messy.

Do what? PVA adhesive is freely available all over the globe, ready-made. It is often claimed that it is the most widely available glue of the lot, and this may well be true.

I can see the attraction of the method, although I haven't tried anything like it myself. I presume that it's intended to mould itself to the groove, and also around all of the debris in the bottom of it, which then peels out. My initial thoughts are that since you can water-dilute this stuff, then a runnier solution might be somewhat better to use in terms of getting around the muck than a thicker one, perhaps?

Perhaps the stuff sold for glueing paper, called, for what unguessable reason, rubber cement, is it? Otherwise, what is an example of regular retail sale?

The recipe I have for vinyl cleaning is around 50% alcohol, which probably makes it thinner and more wet than a water only mixture. (Also it dries much faster.) If it is too thin, however, it is rather difficult to get a very even layer over the disk, and it most easily comes off in pieces. The bits left in the grooves are much softer than a stylus, but they do somewhat interfere with proper playback.

The bits left in the grooves are much softer than a stylus, but they do somewhat interfere with proper playback.

Which is a damn good reason for not trying to clean records in this way.

As SteveG has pointed out, PVA woodglue can be found all over the world, it's not a rare product.  The commercial product, I mentioned in my last post, was probably based on a similar material - but it's many years ago now and I can't recall seeing it for sale for a long time (which probably explains why I have forgotten the name of it).

Perhaps the stuff sold for glueing paper, called, for what unguessable reason, rubber cement, is it? Otherwise, what is an example of regular retail sale?

This is the first one I came across - there are thousands more, as a google search would reveal.

http://www.islandblue.com/store/product/10672/TRAN-PVA-GLUE-2OZ/

Rubber cement is an entirely different product - it's latex-based.

http://www.shoplet.com/office/db/g25734.html

[vinyl]

I have a pot of rubber cement on my shelf but it smells so strong of solvents I would not come close to an LP with it.

Steve, the PVA glue your link points to mentions:

Good with paper, board, collage, book binding, crafts, archival work, wood and vinyl

I would look for a glue that doesn't work well with vinyl...

I've used, literally, gallons of PVA here.  The bulk of it was put on bare plaster walls to seal them, the rest is holding bits of wood together .  I've yet to see it stick to vinyl sheeting (there's a lot of that around this house as well) you can peel it off easily - which is why some people use it for records.

[IT'S NOT THE SAME STUFF AT ALL!]

I have a pot of rubber cement on my shelf but it smells so strong of solvents I would not come close to an LP with it.

That's the general idea - IT'S NOT THE SAME STUFF AT ALL!

I would look for a glue that doesn't work well with vinyl...

I tried some wood glue on a piece of vinyl today (not a record), and it doesn't stick to it at all. Which isn't surprising really, because it isn't absorbent. If you have any sort of hole in your vinyl though, the glue will mould itself into it and give the appearance  of sticking - even though it hasn't.

I tried some wood glue on a piece of vinyl today (not a record)...

Coward!

Actually,  I tried it on a real record, just for the hell of it.  It went on, it dried, 99% came off.  It's 1% that was left which worried me.  I think I'll keep my Monks .

Coward!

Well perhaps... but where I was, I had some PVA wood glue and vinyl available, but no records. And I didn't let on about what I was up to either, because I strongly suspect that it would have attracted some rather wry comments...

It went on, it dried, 99% came off.

How long did you leave it to dry? I have good information that if it's less than 24 hrs, not all of the chemical reaction that's going to happen within it will have completed, even if you heat it up. I suspect that if this is going to be really successful, it's going to be a slower process, so...

I think I'll keep my Monks .

If I had one, so would I!

How long did you leave it to dry? I have good information that if it's less than 24 hrs, not all of the chemical reaction that's going to happen within it will have completed, even if you heat it up. I suspect that if this is going to be really successful, it's going to be a slower process, so...

A couple of days.

I think I'll keep my Monks .

If I had one, so would I!

I can sell you one - we're the agents for Portugal and Spain.  I guess you'd be better going direct though .

On a more serious note, I really don't think this is a good way to clean records. 

Tell me more about the Monks system.

And what your second choice would be for fewer $$$.

By the way, Steve, what did that 1% end up doing?  (stayed stuck on, I'm assuming)

I have a few old records I don't care about I'd gladly try this on, but have no PVA.  Hmmmmm...

I have a number of LPs which I'd be happy to try the glue procedure on - without removing the glue afterwards...