Review of Audition 3 in Norwegian press!

Wonders never cease. The Norwegian press finally noticed that there is a product called Audition 3. The review, in an online IT newspaper started well with a fairly accurate history of AA from Cool Edit etc. Unfortunately the journalist then wrote.
"Vinklingen er likevel først og fremst rettet mot generel lydredigering, i mindre grad mot musikk." Which means
The focus is first and foremost towards general sound editing and to a lesser degree toward music!

He later says

"Det er heller ikke mulig å velge en allerede eksisterende VST-mappe for plug-ins, de må flyttes til Adobes VST-mappe."
It is not possible to choose an existing VST folder for plug ins, they have to be moved to Adobes VST folder  I have been doing it wrong all this time!

And finally

"På toppen av det hele må du sette programmet i Play for å høre VST-instrumentene når du skal sjekke lyd. Er du i Stop kommer det ingen MIDI-informasjon inn til plug-in'ene."

On top of everything you have to be in Play in order to check the sound on VST instruments. If you are in Stop no midi information gets to the plug-in 

I sent in a comment!

So you're "makko".

On top of everything you have to be in Play in order to check the sound on VST instruments. If you are in Stop no midi information gets to the plug-in.

I have that problem all the time.

Is your Midi "L" button turned ON?

Unfortunately the journalist then wrote.
"Vinklingen er likevel først og fremst rettet mot generel lydredigering, i mindre grad mot musikk." Which means
The focus is first and foremost towards general sound editing and to a lesser degree toward music!

Just two points:

• a) It's absolutely true
• b) What's unfortunate about that?

Unfortunately the journalist then wrote.
"Vinklingen er likevel først og fremst rettet mot generel lydredigering, i mindre grad mot musikk." Which means
The focus is first and foremost towards general sound editing and to a lesser degree toward music!

Just two points:

• a) It's absolutely true
• b) What's unfortunate about that?

Yeah, true but funny.  It's as if somebody said of the Apollo 13 spacecraft: "The focus is first and foremost towards precision thrust and propulsion, and to a lesser degree towards getting three people to and from the moon safely."

Most people use Au for making or improving music, no?

Most people use Au for making or improving music, no?

Er, no. The vast majority of users use Audition for making radio programs - nothing to do with music production at all. That's where its traditional user base is. And that's because it's primarily an audio editor. I do not understand why people persist in trying to use Audition for something like music production that quite frankly, it's not as good at as quite a lot of other software.

As an editor, Audition has the edge over most music production software. The developers of that sort of software know where its strengths lie, and they are, by and large, not in editing. And accordingly, the means to produce music is what they concentrate on. Audition is primarily an editor, with what amounts to a multitrack recorder and mixer attached. And far as I'm concerned, that's all it should be. I don't mind automation being added, but beyond that it should not go, because it's competing with software that can do what passes for music production tasks these days somewhat better.

If you want to succeed, you play to your strengths, not your weaknesses. Audition is exactly what radio broadcasters want, and it also works pretty well for the editing of live performances, whether they are music or not. And if you try to make Audition a Jack of all trades, it will almost certainly become the master of none of them.

One of the developers (Durin) has said (on the Adobe forum, but I've borrowed a little of it - I hope he won't mind...)

"Our goal has not been to compete head-to-head with MIDI Sequencers that have been around for 10 or more years. I don't think anyone on the team expected to steal users from Sonar or Logic with our Sequencer. Those are amazing applications with years of refinement and a dedicated userbase...

...I will say that we wanted to create a VSTi Sequencer, using soft synths, and not emphasize it as a Generic MIDI tool. While I'm unlikely to create an entire album with it yet, it's incredibly useful for brainstorming and "mocking up" songs, themes, riffs, etc."

And it sounds for all the world like a complete departure from any marketing sense at all (Sorry, Durin - this isn't really your fault; it should have been stamped on at a much higher level). Audition is a production tool, and it generally gets used for finished product. Brainstorming and 'mocking up' songs does not enter into this. If you can't, or won't, produce a product that competes, it's best not to. And let's face it; in this area it's not going to compete, really, is it?

On top of that, there are still problems with the ASIO audio performance, when compared with a lot of other audio apps. And surely that's an area where development time needs to be spent initially - not on facilities that are inevitably going to be incomplete, and don't fit in with the fundamental concept of the software - as a multitrack editor.

Well, I stand corrected, but then the reason I asked was cuz I thought you'd know the answer. 

However, I don't believe that although the majority of users of CEP/AA have been radio people who use it as an editor, that its purpose has dedicatedly been that only.  I think Syntrillium/Adobe's been playing the music production market as well.  Music production's a matter of recording and editing.  Like you say, it's an ace editor.  And how is it inferior to other softwares as a tracker?  And as for the Midi and Vsti thing - that looks from where I'm sitting like it has more to do with making music than editing radio programs (although that has more to do with the future than the past, which is mostly what we're talking about, I suppose). 

You might be right about the developers (or is it the developers' bosses?) making a tactical error in trying to make the program a swiss army knife, but I hope not, cuz versatility, if they can square versatility with reliability, is always superior in my experience.  However, I'm glad you're critiquing it, cuz they'll listen to you.  Not for the global decisions probably - have you ever known a big company to make completely sensible decisions? - but for ways to improve what it does already but could do better.

Most people use Au for making or improving music, no?

Er, no. The vast majority of users use Audition for making radio programs - nothing to do with music production at all. That's where its traditional user base is. And that's because it's primarily an audio editor. I do not understand why people persist in trying to use Audition for something like music production that quite frankly, it's not as good at as quite a lot of other software.

As an editor, Audition has the edge over most music production software. The developers of that sort of software know where its strengths lie, and they are, by and large, not in editing. And accordingly, the means to produce music is what they concentrate on. Audition is primarily an editor, with what amounts to a multitrack recorder and mixer attached. And far as I'm concerned, that's all it should be. I don't mind automation being added, but beyond that it should not go, because it's competing with software that can do what passes for music production tasks these days somewhat better.

If you want to succeed, you play to your strengths, not your weaknesses. Audition is exactly what radio broadcasters want, and it also works pretty well for the editing of live performances, whether they are music or not. And if you try to make Audition a Jack of all trades, it will almost certainly become the master of none of them.

One of the developers (Durin) has said (on the Adobe forum, but I've borrowed a little of it - I hope he won't mind...)

"Our goal has not been to compete head-to-head with MIDI Sequencers that have been around for 10 or more years. I don't think anyone on the team expected to steal users from Sonar or Logic with our Sequencer. Those are amazing applications with years of refinement and a dedicated userbase...

...I will say that we wanted to create a VSTi Sequencer, using soft synths, and not emphasize it as a Generic MIDI tool. While I'm unlikely to create an entire album with it yet, it's incredibly useful for brainstorming and "mocking up" songs, themes, riffs, etc."

And it sounds for all the world like a complete departure from any marketing sense at all (Sorry, Durin - this isn't really your fault; it should have been stamped on at a much higher level). Audition is a production tool, and it generally gets used for finished product. Brainstorming and 'mocking up' songs does not enter into this. If you can't, or won't, produce a product that competes, it's best not to. And let's face it; in this area it's not going to compete, really, is it?

On top of that, there are still problems with the ASIO audio performance, when compared with a lot of other audio apps. And surely that's an area where development time needs to be spent initially - not on facilities that are inevitably going to be incomplete, and don't fit in with the fundamental concept of the software - as a multitrack editor.

Have to disagree with this. Radio producers these days do get involved with music production, and the multitrack is used by radio people more for producing music beds and jingles, with prerecorded samples, workparts and loops etc. The natural progression of this is to record your own original bits of music and fx noises using the VST softsynths which are widely available now. Until Audition is usable for VST synths I will continue to record bits and pieces in FL Studio and bring the Waves into Audition for multitrack prodcution.

From the radio user perspective, the 'bloatware' rubbish that keeps getting added and we wish wasn't, is stuff like spectral this and that and hiss remover (is it?) don't make me laugh, anyway stuff that radio people (if they were asked) don't use, only a couple of very very old and grey and crinkly audiophile vinyl restorers still kicking about.

The things we radio people DO want, and I'll save Adobe some research time and money.. are more clever reverbs, something to make audio go backwards .. er let me see, a granular filter (see GranuLab and buy it) .. and filters like CamelPhat, CamelSpace, and how about a sampler? You know, so we can make things g-g-g-go l-l-like this. Now we're talking hot radio audio editor for the new milennium. Why don't you just start a forum thread called "Radio guys - what do you want to see in future versions of Audition?"

However, I don't believe that although the majority of users of CEP/AA have been radio people who use it as an editor, that its purpose has dedicatedly been that only.  I think Syntrillium/Adobe's been playing the music production market as well.  Music production's a matter of recording and editing.  Like you say, it's an ace editor. 

Well, to be strictly fair, it wasn't intended for a particular market initially - certainly it wasn't intended to be a radio app, that's for sure. David Johnson wrote it to mimic the functions of a tape recorder - initially a stereo one, and then a multitrack one. In that sense, it was sort-of 'format agnostic'. The only way in the past that it was really intended to be a music composition tool was with Loopology - and that was only really intended to exploit the characteristics of one form of MP3 file, with not much needing to be added to the software.

However, I'm glad you're critiquing it, cuz they'll listen to you.  Not for the global decisions probably - have you ever known a big company to make completely sensible decisions?

I wish! Radio users found CE2000 in particular to be incredibly useful - and that is an area where Adobe has steadfastly refused to listen to any of us at all, and it has definitely lost them sales to other apps that in many ways are less suitable, but still provide a small number of basic multitrack facilities. Soundbooth could have filled that bill with a little rearrangement, but would they listen, and add this? No. All the comments I've ever heard from anybody about Soundbooth have the word 'useless' in them somewhere - I gave up with it after an early beta, and their announcement of no basic multitrack.

Despite this, Audition still gets taught in most, if not all, radio production training. And I don't think that there's a radio station on the planet that doesn't have at least one version of CEP/CE2000/AA somewhere on the premises. The BBC has thousands of seats of it - broadcasters worldwide outnumber musician users by a staggering degree. This is partly because there's relatively little other software that radio users are able to use in a similar way, and partly because there's so much more software available for composing musicians.

And how is it inferior to other softwares as a tracker?

 

Ask anybody who's tried to overwrite a clip by doing a dropin... The present version is even inferior to its own predecessors!

You might be right about the developers (or is it the developers' bosses?) making a tactical error in trying to make the program a swiss army knife, but I hope not, cuz versatility, if they can square versatility with reliability, is always superior in my experience. 

To achieve that, you have to throw a staggering amount of money at development - and that's invariably reflected in the price users have to pay. There is software out there that does look like where Audition sort-of seems to be stumbling towards, but it costs considerably more - like 3 to 4 times as much. Do you want to pay that much?

My point really hinges on the aforementioned somewhat - I don't think that another really expensive app that would still be playing catch-up is what the world wants at all. And if Adobe continue not to listen to what the world actually needs (rather than wants) in their audio software, sales are going to fall anyway, with inevitable price consequences. I think that Adobe's basic mistake here is that they keep listening to a few people making a lot of noise (as musicians are wont to do) rather than counting, and researching the real world needs of, the number of people using it and who can influence potential new users. When the tutors in radio colleges start complaining about it (and they are...) then Audition's sales are really likely to take a nose-dive.

Have to disagree with this. Radio producers these days do get involved with music production, and the multitrack is used by radio people more for producing music beds and jingles, with prerecorded samples, workparts and loops etc. The natural progression of this is to record your own original bits of music and fx noises using the VST softsynths which are widely available now. Until Audition is usable for VST synths I will continue to record bits and pieces in FL Studio and bring the Waves into Audition for multitrack prodcution.

If you read all of what I said, you'd realise that I am suggesting that there should be a version specifically for radio users, and by implication, it should be properly researched.... although I prefer the notion that people in radio got on with making good radio, rather than messing about with a load of noise.

From the radio user perspective, the 'bloatware' rubbish that keeps getting added and we wish wasn't, is stuff like spectral this and that and hiss remover (is it?) don't make me laugh, anyway stuff that radio people (if they were asked) don't use, only a couple of very very old and grey and crinkly audiophile vinyl restorers still kicking about.

Precisely. What would make most sense would be for there to be versions available that selected components from a larger pool, and let people have the versions that are of most use to them. This has all been quite forecefully put to Adobe on several occasions, but it falls on seemingly deaf ears.

only a couple of very very old and grey and crinkly audiophile vinyl restorers still kicking about.

I think that there are a lot more than a couple and they (we) are not "old and grey and crinkly". Loads of other audio material needs restoration not just vinyl. Also many sound archivists use Audition to digitise many thousands of hours of historical sound recordings.

I don't want to get at any "old and grey and crinkly" forum members involved in vinyl restoration, etc but I do agree with Steve about how good CE 2000 and CEP were for the basic sort of work involved in radio production. 

Since the release of AA, I have bought each new version not because I really needed most of the new stuff included but almost in the same way that you feel inclined not to be seen wearing last years clothes fashions.

For this reason, I am NOT updating to AA 3.0  - although a friend of mine in the states offered to get a copy for me at the US price and bring it over for me to Bonnie Scotland when he come over next week for Hogmanay.

Mean Scotsman I hear some of you mutter.   

Anyway Happy Christmas to all the forum members and may 2008 be a fantastic New Year for you all.

Charlie

 

Ask anybody who's tried to overwrite a clip by doing a dropin... The present version is even inferior to its own predecessors!

Here, here!  If you are not extremely careful things can get messy really quick (although sometimes it doesn't matter how careful you are)!  Organizing a vertical stack of hidden clips, or takes, has been a big source of frustration for me.  Especially when these clips are a drum performance spread over 8 tracks.

I believe that Adobe should take a serious look at how Reaper handles these situations, at least you have the option to explode all takes to separate tracks.  And you can actually see and select each individual punch in.

That being said, I still use Audition as my all-around audio app.   

Mean Scotsman I hear some of you mutter.   

SWMBO, who is partially of scots descent, would be far more inclined to use the word 'thrifty' - and I couldn't really disagree. Well, not if I want any Christmas dinner...