I'd really appreciate feedback on this one

Hello all,

Please provide me with some harsh criticisms on this song (mostly the mixing). I know it doesn't sound professional, I just can't figure out why that is. How can I improve this mix? Don't be afraid to attack this song quite harshly, I can take it, seriously. I'd like to go back and remix the song so I can improve it. I'm also open to re-singing the song.

Thanks very much,

Ben

Eek!

My immediate response is , what happened to the midrange? it's all gone! All you have is highs and lows and noth'n in between. The opening two guitars are competing for the same high frequencies, and then the drum comes in with thumps in the low end and no mids. I would say this is a major eq fix. Try taking it track by track and making them each sound right alone, then start adding them together and adjust so that each one fits into the sonic landscape. Don't make huge adjustments + or - 2.5 db max on any frequency on any track. Your ears will tell you when it's right.

Good luck!

I agree with Mark to remix, making each track sound natural.  However, I'm wondering if a problem might be the kind of speakers you are mixing on.  If thery're not fairly flat and true you may never be able to tell when you've got it right.  Are they computer speakers?  I've uploaded a file with some treatment, however, your original mix was not a stereo mix, but mono.  That could easily contribute to a deficient "sound".  Being mono there will be no spatial elements -- meaning everything is sitting on top of everything else in the center. 

With some sonic treatment and multitrack splitting I was able to round out the sound, but the kick in the original mix needed to have some of the range between 150 and 300Hz taken out to tame the thump it has.  I could have decreased that range, but to do that in a mix would also thin out the voices and other instruments too much.

A remix with some panning and stereo placement of instruments and voices could be a step to improvement.

Mark, I think you picked up on the exact problem...the mids are missing. Thank you. I will be adjusting that.

Cal, I'm using supposedly flat studio monitors ("Behringer Truth"), however I've done very little mixing with these flat monitors (I use to use computer speakers) so that may account for the mixing issues. I'm very surprised the the file is in mono because I uploaded a stereo file! I did a lot of stereo work (panning, etc) which contributes to the sound quality. For example, the competing guitar lines that Mark mentioned were panned to opposites sides so the fact that they occupy the same frequencies is less problematic.

Your mastered version actually sounds considerably better. Nonetheless, I'm gonna go back and remix this song with both of your suggestions in mind. I should point out that I did reduce the 150-300 range from the kick drum, I guess it wasn't enough though.

Thank you both!

I'm very surprised the the file is in mono because I uploaded a stereo file! I did a lot of stereo work (panning, etc) which contributes to the sound quality.

That's interesting, because the thing that leapt out at me when I listened was how narrow the sound is.  (I can't confirm whether or not it's truly mono because I'm listening at work, and don't have a waveform view.)  I particularly thought the drums were drowned out as soon as the song really kicked in at the 40s mark.

I'm very surprised the the file is in mono because I uploaded a stereo file! I did a lot of stereo work (panning, etc)

I'll bet when you made your mp3 copy the "Convert To Mono" box was checked, under mp3 Options.  Try making another mp3 file with that unchecked.

Re-recording the vocals wouldn't hurt either. They are out of tune; but I guess you noticed this yourself.

Re-recording the vocals wouldn't hurt either. They are out of tune; but I guess you noticed this yourself.

FWIW, I didn't notice that at all, which probably goes a long way to explaining my own singing problems, as discussed in another topic.

[Could normalization do this?]

On the mono issue...I downloaded the file and it's in stereo just as I had uploaded (the "Convert to mono" box was not checked as Call suggested, good guess though). However, the stereo field IS very narrow as blurk mentioned. The extensive panning that I did seems to have been eliminated completely. I am not sure as to the reason for this. I normalized the final mixdown...Could normalization do this? 

Re-recording the vocals wouldn't hurt either. They are out of tune; but I guess you noticed this yourself.

FWIW, I didn't notice that at all, which probably goes a long way to explaining my own singing problems, as discussed in another topic.

Singing this song is a nightmare because it requires harmony with the music + harmony vocals in addition to the fact that the range between verse and chorus is massive. So yeah, the vocals aren't great. I'm going to re-sing parts of it for sure (especially the verses) and maybe even all of it, we'll see.

All of your feedback has been very helpful, thank you again.

[Could normalization do this?]

The extensive panning that I did seems to have been eliminated completely. I am not sure as to the reason for this. I normalized the final mixdown...Could normalization do this? 

No, normalisation shouldn't do this at all.  I think one possibility is that maybe you accidentally converted to mono if you converted a 32-bit master to 16-bit.  But that should have been visually obvious.  Still, I sometimes miss the obvious when I'm in a rush; maybe you did too?

OK, I re-recorded parts of the song and I remixed the whole thing. Please have a listen and let me know if this is an improvement, and more importantly, whether there is still work to be done  .

I figured out the reason behind the narrow stereo field. It had nothing to do with conversion or how I saved the file. It had to do with Spitfish. I didn't realize that the "Stereo" option needs to be selected otherwise is narrows the field. By the way, that is a great plugin!

The file is attached, but you can also listen to it here if you prefer:

http://www.myspace.com/bennissan

I'm using supposedly flat studio monitors ("Behringer Truth"), however I've done very little mixing with these flat monitors (I use to use computer speakers)

1. Think of an equilateral triangle. Your ears, and the two speakers, are equally distant from each other.
2. Position speakers on a speaker stand at ear level: off the floor / away from the walls.
3. Get several CDs of genres you like: Rock / blues. Listen to these CDs with these speakers. Notice levels: highs / lows / mids.
4. Make a mix of your music
5. Take above reference commercial CDs and your Cd mix and listen to these in a car. Drive around. See where you need to go in your mixes.
6. Adjust as necessary: repeat steps (4/5/6).

Note: Computer speakers will always seem fine - when the bass is not actually there!!!!! Also, changing speakers will do a number on you as well. I used Scott Audiophile speakers for years. Fine. Then a friend loaned me Event 20/20 Bass speakers. Great speakers. Noticed mixes make with the Event 20/20 have less bass than the Scott Audiophile speakers. The mixes with the Event 20/20 sounded fine in a car. Be careful: Tweaking sound can drive you normal.

Brewer

I like the final mix - it has a live feel. Vocals / guitars / drums are clear and alive.

Processed Short Example using AA 3.0 w/your song (remember this is from a MP3)

- Upsampled MP3 to 9632 for editing
- Limited -12 / compression (slightly adjusted graphic curve)
- Parametric EQ (As desc below) ******
- reduced amplitude -2dB / then hardlimited mix 1.6
- Downsampled to 4416 / MP3

Parametric EQ:  ******

Boost Bass:
Q =0.5 (wide) -  132 Hz - raised + 1.9 dBs

Remove Negative Frequencies:
Q=10 (narrow) - 324 Hz - lowered - 3.4 dBs
Q=10 (narrow) - 769 Hz - lowered - 2.4 dBs
Q=10 (narrow) - 1510 Hz - lowered - 2.4 dBs

Adding "Air"
Q =0.5 (wide) - 6780 Hz - raised + 2.4 dBs

A NYC Radio Mix!!!!!
Brewer

OK, I re-recorded parts of the song and I remixed the whole thing. Please have a listen and let me know if this is an improvement, and more importantly, whether there is still work to be done  .

I figured out the reason behind the narrow stereo field. It had nothing to do with conversion or how I saved the file. It had to do with Spitfish. I didn't realize that the "Stereo" option needs to be selected otherwise is narrows the field. By the way, that is a great plugin!

The file is attached, but you can also listen to it here if you prefer:

http://www.myspace.com/bennissan

Hi,

Sorry it's taken a while but I have been building an extension on my mountain cottage! Those Toms hves far too many lows, back them off a few dbs and drop everything under 60Hz. There is still quite a bit of fighting in the mid range, a bit more eq, panning etc needed here. Try backing that picked guitar off a bit, then drop the eq until almost all you can hear is the plectrum on the strings - that way you get the suggestion of the guitar without muddying up the sound. These are only suggestions - I just feel a little more work would make a big difference - good luck

You're all right. The song needs to be remixed again. It's been a mixing nightmare, for some reason more so than other songs even though I'm using less instruments and tracks. This is one of those times where I'll have to move away from the song for a while so I can forget what I've done so that when I re-approach it again in a few weeks I will have less biases. I'll likely repost a totally different song on the recording showcase before I repost the remixed version of this song.

Your comments have been truly helpful and I'm quite grateful to all of you. Your trained ears are very valuable to me. Thanks again.