Best use of 1.5 for radio

Hi friends,
Wow!  I'm so glad I found this forum!  I can really use some advice from an audio master or two.

I am producing a weekly 1 hour not-for-profit radio show for satellite radio. Every show has the same male and female talent.  My strength is in producing and delivering the content.  I'm struggling with the technical side which I also have to do myself.  This is a shoestring operation here in my home studio.  What I've got is pretty much what I've got, if you know what I mean.

Here's my setup:

2 MXL V57M Condenser mics
Behringer Eurorack MX81002  Mixer
Alesis 3630 Compressor
Soundblaster 5.1 Live Soundcard
AA 1.5

My sound quality is getting by but it isn't up to the level I'm looking for. I'm wondering if I could submit "before" and "after" clips to one of you audio masters to suggest how I could better utilize AA 1.5 with these programs to make them sound their best with what I have.  All of the programs are produced under the same conditions so if I could get this set up once as it should be than I would be good to go for every show.

I know this is a lot to ask, but I have to ask because I really need the help to get this program to the audio quality it deserves to be at.

Thanx

Hi,

The only suggestion I would offer is consider moving up to a better sound card -- you will be greatly pleased by the results.  There are a number of good cards out there.  

My personal setup includes an EMU 1820m, which works fine with AA 1.5 (btw, you may have to make a few adjustments to compensate for AA 1.5's lack of ASIO functionality, but this is not a major issue).  Since you have an external mixer, you could go with a 1212m and do fine.

Or... one of the other good cards used by the folks here! There's more than one!  

Best of luck,

Russ

By all means post some small samples, either here on the board or as links to your own web space and I'm sure some people will comment.

Be warned though...the answer is often advice on improving your original recording rather than details of remedial techniques in Audition!

Bob

I assume that you're recording this weekly, then editing and submitting for broadcast?

Why is it that you feel your audio is not quite there? Is your "talent" strictly vocal, musical, or Do you feel that the timbre, for instance, of your vocal presentations could have more of a "presence?"

The first lesson of recording is that the quality of your recorded work will never get better than what you can record. If that sounds convoluted, let me clarify by saying that your efforts should be focused on recording the best quality audio you can get. If you are counting on fixing something in editing, you'll probably be disappointed.

Look at your situation: you say you have what you have, and you use the same "talent" every week. They are what they are, and if you're trying to turn them into something else, forget it! I note the absence of any sort of monitoring equipment. Do you have some reference speakers? They are absolutely necessary for this type of production.

If you're dissatisfied with the vocal sound, try some different things like mic placement. Get your people closer to the mics, then listen to your recorded sound through some decent monitors. Then move them farther away, and listen again. Hang some heavy blankets on the walls of your room if you're getting a lot of resonance. Try to deaden the ambience of the room as much as you can, if you feel that's the problem. Then try putting your mics next to a hard wall and recording there. Note the difference between the way that the two placements "colour" the sound differently. Try different compression ratios, beginning at maybe 1.5:1.

When you feel you're getting things near to where you want them, then you can think about editing. Is there any sibilance? (pronounced "sss" consonant sounds) Do some de-essing. Do you wish to make the male voice sound a little more "bassy?" EQ a small cut at about 250Hz and above. Try a small amount of reverb, emphasis on "small." Are there pronounced breathing sounds in the presentation? Maybe you need to manually duck them. ( make them quieter)

We can't hear what you're doing so offering advice is a bit of a dicey proposition. But the essence of doing this is to try, listen, and try again. We all did it this way... Education always takes time and costs something.

-Phil

Thanx to all of you for your helpful comments.  

Phil, here's my answers to your questions:

Yes, I'm recording weekly, then editing for broadcast.

As for what's wrong with this - I don't know how to quantify it which is why I'm submitting clips. More about the clips in a minute.

Talent is vocal in a talk show format.

I neglected to mention that I am using AKG K-100 headphones for monitoring.

I'll try the ideas to improve the recordings.

sibilance is not a big problem.

EQ idea sounds good.  I don't know much (make thant anything) about using EQ.

Breathing sounds are a problem at times. I don't know how to manually duck them.

Thanks for the tons of good advice.  

Now, about the clips:

tsiyon sample 1 :  This is a pre-edited clip from one of the first programs.  You will notice a lot of hum.  I am located near a train waiting area where trains will be parked for hours with engine running.  Since this clip I have done more to reduce the hum in the environment as much as possible - but I still have to deal with it to a degree.  This clip was also from before I purchased the compressor.

tsiyon sample 2:  This is an edited clip from the most recent program I did, just finished yesterday.  This is the level of post-edit quality I am at right now.  The clip has been through noise reduction and hard limiting - and thats it.

Thanks in advance for taking a look.

Regards, tsiyon

Here is my second clip. This is an example of my post-edit quality right now.

Well the first thing tsiyon, is to record each person separately if you can't give each person a mic. Sounds like the mic is many feet away from the people talking. You're picking up atmosphere noises because of this, you are in effect recording the room. And you don't want to do that, you want to record only the voices. So you have to position the mic very close to the person's mouth. Try that and post a recording, one of us will take it up from there.

An .mp3 would be better... Your file is over 8 megs and would take me an hour to download 47 seconds of audio.

However, the first 5 seconds tells me all I need to know. You're recording the room and amplifying everything up to a point where the room noise  becomes overpowering. Sounds like you might be over-compressing too.

Get your people closer to the mics, and record them with some mild compression as I suggested before. Keep the room noise out of there.

Are your people wearing 'phones while doing this? There's a reason that studios give EVERYBODY a mic and a set of 'phones.

-Phil

Not much more to add.  There is WAY too much room noise on your recording and, frankly, nothing in Audition is going to fix that.  You have to get your talent closer to the mics (probably adding pop filters if you do).  One thing to consider:  I believe the pickup pattern of your MXL mics is cardioid.  This means that the voices have to be directly in front of the proper side of the diaphram.  Your presenters don't have to be far out of the proper line to begin to sound "off mic" like these do.

Although not proper acoustic treatment, lots of soft furnishings and curtains in the room and around the presenters will help too.

Finally, on another point, I notice that the male voice is actually clipping a bit (i.e. levels have been raised to over 0dBFS) and this is adding a slight harsh edge to his words.

Bob

Thanks Gentlemen, for your helpful comments.  I have put some of these into use already with good effect.  I would like to upload my second clip, but I should remove the first one before I do that.  I can't seem to find instructions for removing uploaded clips.  Can anyone direct me to that?

Thanks, Tsiyon

I haven't listened to the clips, but from reading the comments I have some suggestions.

If you are using 2 mics, pan them hard L and hard R.   This will allow you to go in and remove ambient noise when the person is not talking.  This greatly reduces room noise.  Tedious to do, but makes a huge difference.  After editing, use Channel Mixer or Convert File Type to pan the voices back to center.  I would junk the external compressor and use just the dynamics processors in Audition after the fact, though opinions vary greatly about that.  If it's just 2 people talking, and you can tame down the room acoustics, why not just position them around a single omidirectional mic.  If someone's louder, move them back, if someone's quieter move them forward.  It's one of the basic recording techniques dating back to the early days of recording, and it's still valid today.

Craig, I wouldn't have thought of that panning idea in a million years!

Thanx a bunch, Tsiyon

PS - Can someone tell me how to remove the uploaded clip? Thanx.

PS - Can someone tell me how to remove the uploaded clip? Thanx.

You should be able to click on 'edit' on the post it's in, and then click on 'posted attachments' and be able to remove it from there. If you can't do this for some reason, then let me know - I can sort it out.

Craig's suggestion is good, but you really should start with the earlier suggestions of trying mic positions and moving the presenters, plus treating the room in some way.

For breath noises, the cheap answer is, of course, to place the mic slightly to the side, or anywhere that is out of the line of fire from the nose or mouth.

This is not meant to be an insult, but have you put the mics up in the middle of the room and walked round them to confirm which way the front of the cardioid lobe is actually facing?

Hey Steve, thanks for the instructions.  I removed the previous clip and am uploading a clip of my most recent work - this time in MP3.  This is my post edit work that goes out for broadcast.

Wilduck, I hear you about the earlier suggestions - got to get the fundamentals right first.

You know that thing about which direction the mic is facing?  Well, no offense taken - maybe I really am stupid!  

I just assumed that the logo faces the person speaking, but now that you mention it, I suppose that may not be true!  I'll check that out before recording this week.

Thanks again to all of you for taking an interest in helping me.

Regards,  Tsiyon