Importing presets - not quite straightforward

The last time I brouht this up - the thread began to get a little off topic, so I will bring it up again.  

I produce a huge amount of radio stations and work with hundreds of voice talents - I have a large amount of presets I made in AA1.5 Both in AA's Effects and 3rd party Direct-x/VST Plugins.  

I will be s**t out of luck if I can't get them tranfered over to AA2.0

Does anyone know of a way to do this?

This problem will actually make me have to return to AA1.5 for my work

I'm afraid that this might turn into a real issue. I do know exactly what the problem is - and it's pretty complicated. Not the least of it is to do with the fact that presets are now stored in a completely different way, and the effects that they work with have more options available (even though this isn't always apparent), and are also structured in a different way.

I don't know whether a good solution will become available. At the moment, the best way is unfortunately the hardest one - and that's to recreate them from the parameters you've got. Dropping an old Audition.ini file over the program icon, which used to work really well, is almost certainly going to lose you all of the existing presets in AA2.0 - that is, if it works at all. It may be disabled, but I'd advise seriously not to try this at all unless you've backed up all of the registry entries as per Ozpeter's information about this. When I did it a while back, it screwed everything - the preset fragment I tried to drop in didn't get inserted, and all of the existing presets didn't show up either until I restored the registry files.

What is actually required is a utility that converts existing CEP/AA presets into a form that AA2.0 can actually digest. At present, this doesn't seem to exist.

This is quite significant - so I've taken the liberty of changing the thread title slightly, and making it sticky.

There is more information in the original thread that prompted this one - it's here.

[With all of the above YMMV.]

What is actually required is a utility that converts existing CEP/AA presets into a form that AA2.0 can actually digest. At present, this doesn't seem to exist.

We've been relying on an undocumented feature for years now and a bullet proof, official way of doing this definitely required.

It seems there will be varying experiences with this. The only time I lost anything was when I dragged an entire audition.ini to a running AA2 window, and even then not every time under varying circumstances. If I edited audition.ini from AA1.5, and deleted all but the sections I wanted, I never lost anything.

Some of the effects have been replaced by Adobe VSTs. Your old presets are useless in this case. It might be worth looking at all the AA2 effects to determine this before doing anything.

Your old presets for third party VSTs should be OK.

Make sure you follow ozpeter's advice in the thread Steve linked to and backup. The presets are in effect_settings.xml and this at least should be backed up. Saving the entire 2.0 folder is probably a better idea.

If you lose all your factory presets, just delete effect_settings.xml and restart AA. At least the factory presets will come back.

If you delete the entire 2.0 folder and start again, all the "clean install" parameters come back except the favourites which reside in AudCust.ini. Odd!

With all of the above YMMV.

Now, what happens in a few months time when we want to migrate our AA2 presets to another installation??? The above mentioned utility must be able to do that too. A scenario such as sharing presets with other users comes to mind.

Some of the effects have been replaced by Adobe VSTs. Your old presets are useless in this case. It might be worth looking at all the AA2 effects to determine this before doing anything.

Most, if not all as far as I can see.

I'm in agreement with all of the above.  Luckily I rely hardly at all on presets, but it does look like those who do will have to spend a fair bit of time on this... there has to be a better way!

...but it does look like those who do will have to spend a fair bit of time on this... there has to be a better way!

         

[Luckily I rely hardly at all on presets, but it does look like those who do will have to spend a fair bit of time on this...]

Some of the effects have been replaced by Adobe VSTs. Your old presets are useless in this case. It might be worth looking at all the AA2 effects to determine this before doing anything.

Most, if not all as far as I can see.

I'm in agreement with all of the above.  Luckily I rely hardly at all on presets, but it does look like those who do will have to spend a fair bit of time on this... there has to be a better way!

Oz,

Unfortunately, I DO rely quite a bit on presets (that I have created in my various DX & VST plugins--including those from Adobe) and I use them extensively for getting certain instrument or vocal parts to sound consistent throughout a particular project. Yeah, I can do it the old way (which I do still do to an extent) and write down the settings on a track sheet, but presets are a time-saver for those of us would rather spend more time creating than tweaking...This becomes a really critical issue when you decide to rework a project that was recorded a few months or years ago within a same-branded application...

You're correct..."there has to be a better way!"...When I upgraded from CEP 2 to AA 1.5 I had no problem copying my "favorites" and "presets"...Why should I encounter problems copying them from one Adobe release to an upgrade???

 

Why should I encounter problems copying them from one Adobe release to an upgrade???

Whilst I understand what you are saying, I think that most people have realised that the jump from 1.5 to 2.0 isn't really an 'upgrade' at all - it's effectively a new product which just happens to have some of the same features as the previous release. It may well be in the fullness of time that a solution is found to this situation - it would by no means be impossible for somebody to write a small application that would certainly work for the effects that are still present - which admittedly will leave a few problems for anybody with Quickverb presets - but this would surely be better than any of the workarounds that have been suggested so far.

We will have to see what develops...

I think that most people have realised that the jump from 1.5 to 2.0 isn't really an 'upgrade' at all - it's effectively a new product......

In which case, Adobe should have marketed it as a new product and not tried to ride on the coattails of an existing, proven, one.

I'm sure you are not going to agree with me on this, but I think Adobe have not really been very honest with the clients here.  As a beta tester, you have known all about this since the first day you saw it, but the NDA would preclude you telling us about it.  

The rest of us have been sold this software as an 'upgrade' and I don't think it's unreasonable for users to expect at least the same functionality that existed in the previous version.  At the very least issues, such as this one concerning pre-sets, should be made clear - which they have not been.  To my mind, upgrades merely add features and functions to an existing application, not totally change it or remove things which many people use.

I'm sure you are not going to agree with me on this, but I think Adobe have not really been very honest with the clients here.

I wouldn't be too sure about that - I could certainly agree that Adobe have been somewhat economical with the truth about its status - but that is rather more down to PR and Marketing than the people who did the rewrite, I think...

The rest of us have been sold this software as an 'upgrade' and I don't think it's unreasonable for users to expect at least the same functionality that existed in the previous version.  At the very least issues, such as this one concerning pre-sets, should be made clear - which they have not been.  To my mind, upgrades merely add features and functions to an existing application, not totally change it or remove things which many people use.

As a concept, I can't really disagree with this analysis at all - why should people have to forego parts of a program that functioned the way they were used to just because it's been 'upgraded'? Personally, I would have preferred Adobe not to have called it an upgrade at all, and to have said something along the lines of 'We're remodelling Audition from the ground up, so this version is different. If you find these differences to be unworkable from your POV, please let us know about it. Some aspects of the new and old versions are not fully compatible, although session files from 1.5 can be read into 2.0 (up to a point), and operationally the majority of functions remain the same'.

At least that way, people would have expected something different, instead of discovering this the hard way. I don't know absolutely what's gone for ever, just the same as I have no idea of what Adobe will be able to fix - we will have to wait and see. But I have more sympathy for the people who find these changes not exactly to their liking than you might think.

...although session files from 1.5 can be read into 2.0 (up to a point), and operationally the majority of functions remain the same...

"...the majority of functions..." is where there seems to be a problem...While I have not had the chance to truly put 2.0 to a grueling test, I have been frustrated by what I've tried to do in working with  imported files recorded in either AA 1.5 or others (Home Studio, Sonar, etc.)...For consistency in overdubs of vocals, guitars, etc., I constantly create presets for effects plugins (native to AA or 3rd parties)...

The bottom line is that I'm sure that I will, at some point in the future, decide to continue work on a project that may have been started a few years ago (pre AA 2.0) using some very sohisticated presets on particular tracks...I realize this problem is not exclusive to Audition's programming language but it would be nice to know that the presets are at least compatible between different versions of AA...Don't you think?

Regards,
Papa

The bottom line is that I'm sure that I will, at some point in the future, decide to continue work on a project that may have been started a few years ago (pre AA 2.0) using some very sohisticated presets on particular tracks...I realize this problem is not exclusive to Audition's programming language but it would be nice to know that the presets are at least compatible between different versions of AA...Don't you think?

By and large they are - the real difficulty is simply that of importing presets from the old version to the new version. One thing you have to bear in mind is the reason for this, though. The plugins look very similar to the old ones when you use them; so you might wonder why they were changed at all. The reason is quite simple - with the new versions, you can control them in real time from the automation lanes, and you simply couldn't do this with the old versions. So, although the plugins look and sound very similar, and within reason will accept the same parameters as the previous versions, the means of storing those parameters is different, and what isn't present is a built-in translator that will work directly on them to convert them to the new format.

[no]

Obviously, we have to accept the situation as it is - CEP2 is totally different from the earlier releases and it looks as though we're going to have to like it or lump it.

In the absence of any compelling reason, one that hasn't occured to me yet - and although Adobe have included all the things which I wanted (and a few more) I think I'm going to lump it and not upgrade.  As a multitracker, I'm finding it a little flaky (compared to Sonar) and as a restoration engineer, there's virtually nothing in it for me - certainly not for the €129 they want (and I'm lucky, I can get the IVA tax back, otherwise it's €150).

Which brings me to another point.  

In the past, I have happily recommended CEP/AA as an excellent 'one stop' application for restoration work.  There are other programs that handle certain aspects better, but if you only want to buy one, then CEP/AA was, by far, the best bang for the buck around.

With the introduction of AA2.0 - which we're all agreed is greatly different - Adobe are no longer marketing AA1.5.  I really can't find it in myself to recommend AA2.0 for simple restoration work any more.  It's become too expensive and far too bogged down on the multitracking side.

It seems to me that Adobe are going to lose this particular niche market if they continue along this route.  I think this is a great shame.

What I'd like to see is something like AA1.0, with any additional bells and whistles from the later releases (ASIO, scrubbing, lassoo, etc.) but no multitracking.  This would make it an excellent contender for the restoration market - especially those with great ambition, but not the dosh, for Cedar .  I suppose, thinking about it, AA2.0 without any MT would be good (and possibly easier to implement).

I appreciate it's not a huge market, but I suspect a lot of the V/O guys would also go for it, which would make it larger.  It's certainly not difficult to do - all the code is already there, it's more a case of removing/disabling things than writing new ones - I just wonder if Adobe have the willingness to take such a route, or if we are going to lose a great bit of software because of 'corporate policy'?

[no]

What I'd like to see is something like AA1.0, with any additional bells and whistles from the later releases (ASIO, scrubbing, lassoo, etc.) but no multitracking.  This would make it an excellent contender for the restoration market - especially those with great ambition, but not the dosh, for Cedar .  I suppose, thinking about it, AA2.0 without any MT would be good (and possibly easier to implement).

I appreciate it's not a huge market, but I suspect a lot of the V/O guys would also go for it, which would make it larger.  It's certainly not difficult to do - all the code is already there, it's more a case of removing/disabling things than writing new ones - I just wonder if Adobe have the willingness to take such a route, or if we are going to lose a great bit of software because of 'corporate policy'?

This is another 'we'll see'... but what I can tell you is that a very similar suggestion has been quite forcibly presented to Adobe, and this basically related to the demise of CE2000. What's been suggested is something that we named 'Audition Elements' pro tem, and it is intended to be a stripped-down version that is intended for people who only need limited multitrack facilities, and not all of the effects. What we thought was good about the CE2000 concept from this POV was that you could choose how you extended it - which would make it customisable for specific applications - like restoration, for instance.

But if Adobe don't do this, then there are actually quite a few of us who think that they'd be missing a trick... and probably quite a lot of sales.

Quite a few mulitiracking apps can invoke another program to edit a file, rather like double clicking on a file in Audition's MT view does.  So an edit-view-only version of Audition would indeed make some sense - get the MT from elsewhere, if another MT suits you more.

In defense of the present version and its MT view, I have to say that for live location work it's excellent - no unrequired midi clutter, intuitive and "safe" interface, etc.  For postproduction and editing the result it's pretty good too, for similar reasons, though there's a few things I'd still like to see added.

As always, it's whether this particular tool (or toolset) is right for the tasks you tend to require it for.  Great for some, good for others, hopeless for some (eg midi sequencing!).

And let's not forget its place within the suite - not the prime focus of many here but that is quite a significant market sector for Adobe of course - without who there would perhaps be none of this to discuss and deliberate about at all.