Using Adobe Audition in Film Sound Design ..? a blood bath?

Protools has become very popular due to two main points - in its full incarnation it really is a mighty beast - very high quality and extreemly versatile. The other reason is its association with AVID, the non-linear editor of choice. As the two are very closely integrated it is extreemly easy to move stuff around between the two.

Sounds remarkably like advertising-speak to me...

Well, Steve, since I work for neither company and have used a vast array of equipment in over 25 years as a recording engineer, from SSL to Soundtracs, Fairlight to Fostex, Studer to Akai, I find your remark both insulting and unhelpful.

If I had made a similar comment about your beloved, but extreemly buggy, Audition, would you have also accused me of advertising?

Well, Steve, since I work for neither company and have used a vast array of equipment in over 25 years as a recording engineer, from SSL to Soundtracs, Fairlight to Fostex, Studer to Akai, I find your remark both insulting and unhelpful.

If I had made a similar comment about your beloved, but extreemly buggy, Audition, would you have also accused me of advertising?

I think that you should learn to distinguish between a simple observation and an insult. But there again, perhaps when you've spent nearly 40 years working in the industry, and its adjuncts, you may be able to do this.

I think that it is in fact rather helpful to be able to recognise ad-speak, however it is disguised. And if you look just a little further, you will find that my views about what you mistakenly refer to as 'my beloved' Audition are rather more realistic than you might think. And since this is an Audition community, advetising is hardly neccessary.

Hmmm - you have obviously spent 40 years with your eyes closed.

I think I have just remembered why I never normally post on these types of boards.

I will get back to my day job which appears to be stacking up a little

Hmmm - you have obviously spent 40 years with your eyes closed.

I think I have just remembered why I never normally post on these types of boards.

I will get back to my day job which appears to be stacking up a little

You are hardly in a position to comment on what's 'obvious'...

Someone mentioned using samplers and midi for film. I must admit that I have never done it that way! Very cumbersome and not very intuitive.

Keep in mind that the original question was about sound design (sound effects).  I carefully made the distinction between effects and the normal dialogue and music that accompany the film or video footage.  We were only discussing the use of AA in sound design - not the rest of the recording process.

Joss - my comments about the use of MIDI were about the creative process of designing sound effects.  If you re-read what I said, I did state that the final stage was to create sound files.  That was the end of the process that I described - and appears to be the beginning of the process you describe: synching sound files to film or video.

TO get a licence your sound suite has to be tested and assesed by Dolby who test the frequency response from each speaker at 85db - theatre standard. They also take into account console position, screen size and positioning of the monitors. If they like your suite (and they turn down most) they will then come and "tune" the suite to meet the exact specifications. This is needed so that you know how your output is going to sound in a Dolby theatre.

Anyway - enough waffle! Should you use audition for film sound tracks? Well, you could do some of the work on there, but it would be far from ideal.

This may be true enough for film.  While the post-production requirements for a standard film feature may require OMF files and stems and ProTools compatibility, this is most certainly not the case if you're making a low-budget feature or a direct-to-video production.  I'm speaking from personal experience here: what is for many "far from ideal" is the formidable expense of going through a "typical" production route.  If that expense is impossible or to be avoided, Audition is quite powerful and ProTools highly overrated unless your production chain demands ProTools or mixing stage compatibility.  Not too many pages around the corner is a discussion of this very issue relative to my recent project output in Dolby 5.1, and advisement from A-list Hollywood sound guys is part of the scenario.  A big budget wasn't necessary.

I don't know why Dolby cert on sound mix suites is so hard to achieve since their standards are widely published.  I guess I've never tried, and I know my mix "suite" won't pass (though it is calibrated to their 105dB standard).  But I do know that for video encodes it's different.  The only reason we didn't get trademark certification from Dolby for this particular DVD product is lack of time (one week manufacturing-to-sale turnaround).

The rather large audio mix was done 100% in Audition.

I'm posting w/o reading any of the other replies so if this is a repeat of what anyone else has said, I apologize.

With AA, you can open the avi file and place the audio (be it music, sound effects, etc.) exactly where it is supposed to be placed in relation to the visual.  If the clip is an ten minutes long or even an hour long, just insert a blank track that expands from the beginning of the clip to the end of the clip and place your sound clips accordingly.  When you're done, mix down to file and insert track into your video editing session.

Also, just in case you are not aware, let's say you have a five minute vid clip and a five minute twenty second audio clip.  You need the audio clip to end at the same time the video ends and don't want to stretch the video to fit the song.  You also don't want to have the song fade out at the end of the video clip - you want them to end at exactly the same time.

In AA, you can just grab the edge of the audio and pull it back until it locks with the end of the video clip.  AA will do the math and match the audio to the video so that the two end simultaneously.

OK, I've been reading this thread and it so happens that I have been
trying for some time to come up with the best way  to use CEP for film/video post and sound design. I stumbled upon something called
EDLConvert,  a program from Germany  that claims to translate OMFs from a whole menageire of DAWS and NLEs  to-and-from CEP/AA  multi track view.
Has anyone heard of this or tried it??
I don't want to post the website cause it will look like a plug, and
I have no idea  how well it works. The company that makes it I think is Cui Bono Soft.
BUT  I can tell you that if this does what it's supposed to, it's a pretty big deal.
Really the whole OMF compatability thing is the biggest reason  "pro" people  have to stay away from CEP/AA. Regardless of how superior a program it is for dig audio, if you can't bounce a session full of dozens   of clips with handles and fades and what have you  directly in and out of your DAW,  you can't compete. This could change all that, maybe.
I will be looking into it.

EDLconvert is well known about - and very good for what it is.