Is anybody doing any serious 5.1 surround mixing?

Since the addition of the Multichannel Encoder to CEP2.1, which I presume will be carried over to Adobe Audition, we've had the ability to mix and export in 5.1 surround.  Plus, there is the addition of 5.1 to WMA9, which is one of the export (and import) options in CEP2.1.  When all of this went public, I was looking forward to seeing how it would all play out.  Unfortunately, it appears to be playing out like all things in the fragmented world of surround: the typical consumer is ignorant of the options and benefits, and listens to whatever came in the budget-priced box, oblivious to the much greater potential at hand.  The atypical, better-informed consumer has endless technical matters to trip over due to non-standardizations, hype, and software inconsistencies.  What's even more ironic is, now that CEP2.1 supports surround, the occasional surround-related questions on the main Syntrillium forum have basically dried up.

I have one modest DTS CD to my credit, and hope to have another by years' end.  Yet there is an overwhelming amount of stuff to be aware of and beware of, so I don't want to get proud or overly confident.  Rather, it's like most things: the more you know, the more you realize you dont' know.

Nonetheless, this is an area in which I've invested a good bit of time and interest.  A few months ago I started to compile a surround-sound FAQ-type list that I intended to post on the main forum.  Then we all found out the eventual fate of the forum, I got occupied with other matters, and it's sat ever since (which may be OK, 'cause it was already getting really, really long).  So my question is: do any of you make surround mixes in your work?  Does anyone besides DJWayne and me have a fanatical interest in it?  I suppose it wouldn't hurt to finish the FAQ and post it here or on the Adobe forums, but I guess I'm looking to see if there's any significant interest in this kind of thing presently.  The future may be entirely different, of course!

Hi MusicConductor,

I'm just a dabbler using Vegas Video AC-3 and DVD Architect to faux
pre-master somthing in dolby digital. That was 4 months ago and haven;t touched it since. I do remember getting certain things like a better spectral balance for free - but that may have been AC-3 doing it.

I haven't mixed a 5.1 so I'd be interested in reading your exploits and comparing notes from time to time when I finish some other projects. Like I said though I just dabble as an amateur.

kylen

I guess I'd be interested in it if it wasn't such a lonely furrow to plough!  I have never met anyone who has a surround system (not that that's the first thing you ask people) or seen installed any system capable of surround sound - not even a 'home theatre' system apart from in showrooms.  In fact I find it depressingly rare to find even a stereo system with speakers in anything like sensible positions - the usual scenario is one on top of a bookcase and the other behind the sofa.

Maybe I just move in the wrong circles.....

[TROGDOR!!!]

I know a ton of people with home surround systems now.  Nothing fancy, but SWMBO and I inherited an RCA surround system when her dad upgraded his.  Boarzoo has one as well.  You can usually find a cheap home theater setup for under $200 around here, so they're pretty common.

That said, I can't wait to get into surround mixing myself, but it's going to require an upgrade in monitors.  Event makes a Surround Sound subwoofer/distributor.  I plan on using 20/20 BAS monitors for the rest of the speakers.

However, my budget is gonna have to upgrade before my setup does!

Josh

Thanks, guys, and I'll be glad to hear from others, too.

Oz, I don't think you travel alone in the lonely circles -- that extends to the US also -- but maybe my work gives me access to more musicians and sound types.

Josh, the thing that scares me the most about $200 systems is that there's no way the spacial richness of a good recording -- stereo or surround -- will be reproduced by those speakers.  But I don't practice what I preach: my office is set up for surround, and the studio is intended to be.  However, I haven't a stitch of it at home.

Didn't Jon Rose or somebody buy a DTS encoder?

Kylen, does your Vegas Video encoder do 2.0 or 5.1 AC-3?

I can't start to explore the surround functions of cep because I don't have enough monitors. So this will probably be something for the future. It does seem interesting though. Even if it just would be for fun's sake.

Oh, by the way, 3js...

I just noticed something on your avatar...

Does it say 'digitial[/] dreambox' or are my eyes that bad?

[TROGDOR!!!]

MC:  Oh yeah, I completely agree.  I would never use my home theater system for mixing.  I'm using a pair of Alesis Monitor One's right now, and I'm saving for that Event monitor system described above.  I'm just saying that anything mixed in 5.1 around here would probably have a better chance of being heard than it would in Spain.

AMSG:  The avatar reads "DigitalDreamBox Multimedia Productions."  It is a bit hard to read that small, though.

Josh

does your Vegas Video encoder do 2.0 or 5.1 AC-3?

MusicConductor,
It's 5.1 AC-3 if memory serves. I haven't loaded it back up since the crash of April 2003.

It's this one: http://sonicfoundry.com/products/showproduct.asp?PID=772

It sounded real good when I remaster a stereo mix and tried it that one time on my home theater. AC-3 psychoacoustic lossy encoding sounded very fine to me at 24bit/48KHz. I could live there...

kylen

3js, just look closely....it DOES say digitial

But hey, I'm not trying to be a wise guy now! I just noticed it, that's all

[TROGDOR!!!]

3js, just look closely....it DOES say digitial

But hey, I'm not trying to be a wise guy now! I just noticed it, that's all

             

Thanks, AMSG!

Josh

Hi MC,

No, I wasn't the one who bought the encoder.

I've done a total of 3 surround projects so far with CEP2.1 - and I will be quite honest with you - these experiences were intense. Learning surround mixing (and I mean proper surround mixing, with good bass management and compatibility with folded-down mixes) has been a real challenge, and it will probably take me years to get good at this!

Making up a nice stereo mix is a "walk in the park" compared to mixing surround! And I've not had many clients who really want it (or can even pay for it). If I ever get a chance to finish my own project (hah! yeah, right - who's got the time?) then I'll probably do a surround version of that, as well, which will give me more opportunity to play (and not on someone elses time). Maybe by that time someone I know will have a nice encoder handy (wishful thinking).... or maybe I'd be better off authoring a DVD-A and just be done with it.

So many choices, so little time - and so little funding!  

Best.... -Jon  

jonrose Posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I ever get a chance to finish my own project (hah! yeah, right - who's got the time?)

Don't I know it!?  FWIW, I've been trying to finish a "personal" acoustic project that was aptly named "Resolution 2001" (that ought to give you an idea of how long I've been at that particular project).  There always seems to be something "more important" that crops up everytime I think I'll get back to work on it.  That and... the Boss (wife) is very gracious and buys me instruments fairly regular.  When I get something new, I usually go "back to the drawingboard" with the intentions of getting a different instrument worked in.  What started out a a single acoustic guitar project now has grown to 3 different 6 strings, 2 different 12 strings, an acoustic/electric bass, a mandolin and a 6 string banjo!  Someday......    

3js, just look closely....it DOES say digitial

But hey, I'm not trying to be a wise guy now! I just noticed it, that's all

             

Thanks, AMSG!

Josh

No problem

Well, a simple search revealed that it was Roger the Shrubber who also has the Minnetonka DTS encoder.  Since he's not (yet?) a part of this forum, it's no wonder he didn't respond to this thread!

Thanks for the input, gentlemen.  You've confirmed my resolve on this -- it's not urgent, but it is part of the program and a part of the audio world that is slowly increasing in importance.  So someday I'll get around to finishing the FAQ, not in any hurry, and then put it up for skewering.  

I'd be interested in reading what anybody has learned about bass
management and downmix compatibility.