Mixer that controls CEP

Also, I suspect that it won't actually record changes - but you may know different

If CEP/AA will respond to MIDI commands issues by a hardware controller, it should respond to those same commands issued by a MIDI file played through something like Cakewalk........When finished, control your session by playing back the MIDI file.  The MIDI file will send all of the start/stop commands, pan and volume change commands, etc.

Yes - I was thinking along the same lines.  However, as I have noted in another thread, I have never managed to successfully lock a midi sequencer and CEP/AA for any decent length of time.  So. unless I can do that, the whole idea falls flat on its face.

I'm one of those who believe that AA doesn't need to get upgraded to the point that it becomes a MIDI sequencer.  But having the limited ability to record MIDI control codes to a MIDI file, said file to then be used to control your session, seems like a useful feature to have.  That would take away the need to mess with an external MIDI player and virutal MIDI cables, etc.

I have no wish for AA to evolve into a sequencer either - I think there are plenty of more important things to be done and it would only serve to bloat the software for a lot of users who have no midi interest.  I do agree with the idea of being able to record a control track though.  Since there are a number of hardware controllers around which will (in one fashion or another) work with AA - Mackie, Tascam Yamaha, etc. - I hope that Adobe takes the hint.

Midi control has been a feature of this application for some years now, I'm surprised that the idea hasn't already been implemented, it seems such a logical step to make.

If CEP/AA will respond to MIDI commands issues by a hardware controller, it should respond to those same commands issued by a MIDI file played through something like Cakewalk or Winamp (would need to mess with virutal MIDI cables to do this, tho).  If this turns out to be true, now or in future upgrades, then it should be a pretty straightforward process to control the recording / playback of a session using a MIDI file.  All of the fader movements, etc. that you employ with the hardware controller would be recorded into the MIDI file.  When finished, control your session by playing back the MIDI file.  The MIDI file will send all of the start/stop commands, pan and volume change commands, etc.

In principle this is correct & I've done basically that, however, as Graeme pointed out, if the MIDI drifts wrt AA it will be of little real use. And of course, it also won't go into the final mix.

I've got the BCF working pretty much as I want now, and much of what I learned about the combined behaviour of the BCF and AA was by recording and playing the MIDI data on my SD-35, a Roland MIDI file player, and analysing the resulting MIDI files. I'll post details soon when I have the time (tomorrow), but now I'm seriously behind in some real work.

(Also posted in the Adobe forum).

(Also posted in the Adobe forum).

At least it will stay in this one! Or has the issue with the posts dropping out of the bottom been reconciled? Strikes me that it would be a good idea if there was some sort of way of archiving the stuff on that forum...

In many ways it's rather more important with the MIDI stuff, because much of this represents a lot of work on the parts of the people who've done it - and the idea of posting details that can be particularly helpful, and then having them drop into a bottomless pit seems to be rather perverse.

... if the MIDI drifts wrt AA it will be of little real use.

Don't quite get that.  Is it a typo?

[with respect to]

... if the MIDI drifts wrt AA it will be of little real use.

Don't quite get that.  Is it a typo?

I don't think so - it's a typical engineering TLA. Expanded, it means

"If the MIDI drifts with respect to AA it will be of little use"

After spending rather too much time getting to know the BCF2000, I've tabulated & posted my findings to the Cheap Tracks site (Thanks Karl). I spent a while capturing the MIDI data travelling between the BCF & AA. I played MIDI files with some of this data into AA to see how it responds & while it wasn't all smooth sailing I was finally able to create some presets of my own which I've also described in the uploaded info; it was a great learning process for me. While these mightn't be of direct use to anybody else, they show exactly how each key/controller is assigned to control a range of functions and will probably be of great assistance to others trying to learn the BCF/AA combination.

I also spent time with the various emulations built in once the firmware is upgraded to v1.07. My eventual conclusion is that the MCSo emulation (actually provided for Sonar) works well enough for most needs and I've provided a layout to use as a learning guide (see point 2. below). AA must be configured to use an external control device for this to work.

AA provides a wide range of MIDI triggers (see Keyboard Shortcuts and MIDI Triggers) which can be controlled by the BCF. In this case AA must not be configured for a control device, and MIDI Trigger Enable must be on.

Here's a brief howto:-

1. Go to Behringer downloads and download everything in sight for the BCF. Print the Quick Start Guide and Firmware_v1.07_readme.pdf (within bcf2000_107.zip). You'll use them in step 3. Later, you'll want to investigate the other downloads. While you're downloading, get the latest manual and see what this thing looks like.

2. Print this layout guide to help you find your way around.

3. Connect the BCF and configure it according to the Quick Start Guide. Once connected & turned on you should be able to see it in Device Manager under Sound, video and game controllers.

4. In AA, Options>Device Properties choose Mackie Control as the external control device. Click Configure to select the MIDI devices. You should find a new one called USB Audio Device or possibly BCF2000, depending on your configuration. Click OK twice.

5. Settle down with the layout guide & enjoy the fun.

Other files uploaded:-

My preset for mixing a session (record related functions not required). *

My preset for multitrack recording. *

A table showing the parameters assigned to the BCF keys/controllers for a range of functions.

A very rudimentary guide to controlling MIDI triggers with the BCF. Unfinished & how it will probably remain.

* Note that if you are using AA2 or AA3 you may be better off just using MCSo mode - it seems to work more smoothly than with earlier versions of AA/Cooledit. (Added November 2007.)

Undocumented:-

Although Jump To Next Cue/End & Jump To Previous Cue/Beginning can't be assigned to a key when AA is in Control Device mode, the same effect can be achieved by double-clicking on the FF & RW buttons.

If you disconnect the BCF during a session, e.g. to change to a longer cable, a "refresh" will be required. Select Options>Device Properties>OK. While you're there check that the External Control Device is still set to Mackie Control.

A final word:-

While this is certainly not perfect, it's very close and extremely cost effective. If Behringer were to implement an emulation for AA it would be ideal. (But MCSo mode is not bad for AA2 & AA3).

Improvements/corrections to my work are always welcome.

Good work, alan.  Thanks for your effort.  And thanks SteveG for the explanation.  Makes perfect sense to me now.

I suppose the next point of interest is to determine how likely it is that MIDI and AA will drift wrteo (with respect to each other).

Final point:  I haven't been to Karl's site yet to check out alan's postings.  Do we have a place there for other's to post their findings as they play with this process?  If not, can alan create a new folder amongst his stuff for other comments.  Or should we just create a brand new top-level folder and call it "Misc. Comments on Controlling CEP/AA with MIDI" or some such?

wrteo (with respect to each other).

I was going to say that this would be a FLA, but it's not quite as funny...

Do I dare ask you to define FLA??

Do I dare ask you to define FLA??

Yes, but I don't know if I dare to reply... oh, alright then.

Er, Five Letter Acronym (which is why it isn't as funny as TLA!)

Five... (or four if you can't count).


[edit]Oops - didn't see Steve's post lurking there at the top of the next page.
[/edit]

However, as I have noted in another thread, I have never managed to successfully lock a midi sequencer and CEP/AA for any decent length of time.

... as Graeme pointed out, if the MIDI drifts wrt AA it will be of little real use.

Graeme, are you saying that you have synchronized a MIDI file to CEP per the Help File instructions quoted below, but that the synchronization doesn't hold?  I'm not familiar with the thread you reference above, so a link to that thread will suffice if it holds the answer to my question.

From the CEP 2.1 Help File:  (search Index on "Sync")

Through SMPTE time code, you can effectively control Cool Edit Pro’s transport from a device such as a MIDI sequencer, or with the appropriate hardware such as a VCR, or tape deck. When slaved to SMPTE, Cool Edit Pro will synchronize with frame accuracy to the master device which is generating the time code.

Note that Cool Edit Pro requires about 5 seconds of time code, or preroll, to establish synchronization. The readout in the lower left corner of the main window will read Synchronizing when establishing lockup, and Playback Synchronized when actually established.

Hey! i was looking for help on the BCF in the adobe forum and i was really struggling to get it working the way i wanted.  Since alanofoz posted his stuff i've been making real progress. What's still needed though is a table of midi codes for audition functions.

Thanks alan, excellect stuff.

However, as I have noted in another thread, I have never managed to successfully lock a midi sequencer and CEP/AA for any decent length of time.

Graeme, are you saying that you have synchronized a MIDI file to CEP per the Help File instructions quoted below, but that the synchronization doesn't hold?  I'm not familiar with the thread you reference above, so a link to that thread will suffice if it holds the answer to my question.

It was in this thread - http://audiomastersforum.net/amforum/viewtopic.php?t=2878 - but it holds no answers, so don't bother looking .

My problem has been more about maintaining a solid lock than creating one.  Since I believe plenty of people get along with it just fine, it's probably something silly at my end.  If I had a real need for it, I'd roll up my sleeves and sort it out.  However, until now, it's been a lot easier for me to record (multiple) audio tracks in other software - originally because I don't particularly like the 'one fader on view' of CEP/AA and now, because my new mixer requires ASIO support anyway.

I can see AA is going to be used only for restoration, at this rate.