goodbye

[one]

after many years on this forum, with lots of give and take trying to respond to people posting their efforts, even when they weren't my cup of tea at all. I finally realise that there is no quid pro quo; when I post a song asking for some help and over 100 people listen, but not one person can be bothered to post a reply - whether criticism or whatever - then this forum has lost its way and its value.
I wish you all the best in the future - but I fear there is no future to it because the community sprirt has gone!

Ex-member

Sad to see a long time member go. But I can understand it. Good luck with your projects.

I thought about this for at least a day before writing anything:

... then this forum has lost its way and its value.
I wish you all the best in the future - but I fear there is no future to it because the community sprirt has gone!

Well, 100 bots may have read the thread concerned, but unfortunately I rather doubt whether 100 real people have. But Mark is quite correct - social media has removed a lot of what forums used to do, and there ain't no gettin' away from that. Not only that, but the world changes, just like the software we used to support; Audition isn't what it used to be, either. And as a consequence, it's a lot harder to support. Most of the basic stuff we've got covered, and it all gets regularly searched, but when it comes to more recent questions, many almost have to be answered by Adobe staffers. And I can't really see that situation changing very much either.

This is in large part because Audition is finally succumbing to what Adobe (corporate) always wanted it for - an adjunct specialist audio editor for their video products. And this market has moved forward quite a long way, meaning that Audition now has facilities in it that, if you are an audio-only user you a) won't discover, and b) are stunningly complex bits of code - the round path integration with Premiere has an amazing number of hooks in it. The developers (with a significant number of ex-Syntrillium staffers amongst them) held out for as long as they could, but ultimately the need to remain salaried forced the issue entirely - and Audition is now what it is.

We have no immediate plans to close the forum, or anything like that - we haven't even discussed it. But it's very clear that its role and value has changed, and that it's more of a searchable resource than an 'active' forum as such. Where that actually leaves us in the future isn't clear; it doesn't cost that much to run, and if I can get just about enough to cover most of the cost of it, it can remain as such. So far this has just about worked out, but if it doesn't, then there's always the dreaded advertising - which we've always resisted.

So for the moment, my take on it is that it's always here if anybody wants to use it. I can't see the point in anybody actually leaving it - I mean as a gesture that's okay I suppose, but it doesn't really indicate anything other than your refusal to contribute. That said, in this context I too can understand entirely why Mark feels that he needs to do this.

I am sorry that MarkT has decided to leave.  Because of my lack of knowledge about many things audio (and in particular the audio music field), I feel unqualified to comment or criticise other forum members' audio contributions.  However, I do like to download and listen to their efforts.

As a speech based audio-only user, I try to visit the forum most days when I am near a computer.   I have purchased all versions of Audition and before that CoolEdit and CooEdit Pro even although I do not need or use most of Audition's features.  The main reason being to keep up my interest in audio editing in general and radio in particular. 

Being an audio amateur involved in community radio (though not very much now), I learned a great deal from this forum and the old Syntrillium forum thanks to the forum member’s posts and archives.

Recently I have notice a drop in the number of posts especially from some of the forum old timers.  I think Steve's post above clearly identifies the reasons for the drop in posts on the forum.  Also, the reality that the forum has become more of a searchable resource. It would be a sad day if this forum were to close through lack of interest from the members as a very valuable resource would be lost forever to the audio community.   

Even if the forum is now becoming mainly a searchable resource, I would like it to be here for individuals like myself who gained a lot of knowledge and help from this forum's members and archives even though the world of audio editing and radio has changed from when I first joined this forum.

I can only thank Steve for all his good work over the years and urge fellow forum members to retain their membership of the Adobe Audition Forum.  Also to make a little cash contribution, if they can afford it, to keep the forum going when Steve has to pay out the fees for web hosting, etc.

Charlie

Yes it is sad to see MarkT go as I found he usually had something interesting to contribute.
And yes as SteveG says things change - I know for me I have less and less time to contribute but I always click on and check the new posts - mind you this site is blindingly faster than Adobe's and despite assistance from John from the Adobe forum support (thank you Todd) I still can't access their forum without turning on my XP PC.  Sure its always on when I'm testing PT, Cubase or SAW conversions but anyway I'm wandering....

As far as offering criticism/suggestions for fellow forum members audio efforts - well thats not me I'm afraid - one because it's too easy to offend and two because an opinion really isn't worth that much IMO (no pun intended).

It would be sad to see the forum go - as usual I'm happy to throw a few bob in when it comes time for renewal etc...

It's always sad to lose a friend, and Mark always made interesting contributions here.

Life and surroundings change for all of us - I have been hit over the last few years as friends and contacts have moved on or died - and decisions have to be made. Sometimes those decisions are right, sometimes they highlight that we had lost sight of the value in what we were previously doing. About 2 weeks ago in another forum, a member posted a very similar message, saying that he would no longer post videos of his playing because of a lack of comment and interest. Within days another respected member of that forum was taken ill, and the potential retiree had put together and posted a fresh tribute in music.

I usually don't feel I can contribute much to the music recordings area, and had read Mark's "100 views" posting but not listened to it. Yesterday, I downloaded and listened and re-read his post. It seems to me that he was looking and asking for help with something of which he was extremely proud, yet which he realised needed more work. Although the material wasn't anything that I would normally be attracted to, it did strike me as having deep inherent musical quality and potential.
I really do hope that Mark finds somewhere that can help with this and even that he might relent and return to tell us how it went when he finally achieves the finished product.

I'm someone who still frequents what are left of newsgroups, and the few that still have reasonable traffic feel a lot like here, with a handful of stalwart contributors keeping them ticking over nicely.The useful to timewaste ratio here and on good newsgroups is far better than anything I've seen on my occasional toes into social networking areas.

I'm in general agreement with what has already been said. 

Bots have no doubt contributed greatly to the number of 'post read' that MarkT sees. I reject anywhere beteen four and ten 'new member' enquiries every day that are obviously automatically generated. Who knows how many are just running around and reading things? The number of legitimate member requests is very low and even fewer actually bother to confirm their membership - so nobody here can take any blame for others apathy.

I make it a rule not to comment on mixes. etc. for the simple reason that it's all very subjective and only the person doing the job really knows where he wants to end up. In fact I don't even bother to listen to such requests.

As for MarkT's original post, if it's the post I think it is, then its appeal was very limited to a few potential members.  I don't play drums or bass so there would have been little point in my offering to contribute anything. 

[(Please note that this is JUST TODAY's!)]

Bots have no doubt contributed greatly to the number of 'post read' that MarkT sees. I reject anywhere beteen four and ten 'new member' enquiries every day that are obviously automatically generated. Who knows how many are just running around and reading things? The number of legitimate member requests is very low and even fewer actually bother to confirm their membership - so nobody here can take any blame for others apathy.

Yes, the bot situation is interesting - after all, it's these that have caused a lot of what makes the forum 'useful' these days. Without them, it becomes a lot less searchable. But because it's been here so long, (in internet terms, anyway), it often comes high up on search engine hit lists. Which is sort-of what causes it to get hit by even more bots...

Just to give you some sort of an idea, here are this year's stats for hits in general:

Month   Unique monthly visitors    Unique daily visitors    Pages       Hits          
Jan 2011    20950                     52250                       21293       1146115     
Feb 2011    20544                     44336                       233007       1197336   
Mar 2011    20820                     43205                       240889       1211269   
Apr 2011    20634                     45917                       371444       1271288   
May 2011    22481                     50006                       402330       1472425   
Jun 2011    23055                     52941                       291001       1266436   
Jul 2011    23111                      49215                       282000       1233418   
Aug 2011    21959                     44571                       217129       1117760   
Sep 2011    21755                     36366                       202460       1092244   
Oct 2011    23921                     40475                       247701       1208627   
Nov 2011    9782                      15501                       131639       472921   

That's over 12 million hits so far this year....

And the Searchbot hits:  (Please note that this is JUST TODAY's!)

Googlebot (Google)                             41385   
BaiDuSpider                                     13825   
Yandex bot                                     7876   
BSpider                                             5023   
Magpie                                             1776   
Inktomi Slurp                                     1004
Unknown robot (identified by 'crawl')     682   
Unknown robot (identified by 'spider')     471   
IBM_Planetwide                                     349   
arks                                                     191   
Others                                             637   

It's numbers like this (in general) that make me somewhat reluctant to close the site at all - if you see what I mean. Without going into a lot of details, our biggest logger and user of bot information by a long, long way is Google.

The other observation I want to make is that it's not just this forum that gets a lot less traffic these days - the Audition one doesn't do very well either. We have big advantages over them though - we have a much bigger backlog of posts going back over twice as far as they do, and nothing falls off the bottom of this forum - unlike theirs! So we are rather more attractive to bots than they are... back to the beginning of the discussion!

Unless I see it incorrectly, only 10 downloads have happened on Mark's "St. Margaret" song -- not 100+. I was one of those. But he didn't ask for comments or criticisms. He asked if someone could join in and play Jazz drums and Jazz bass.

I don't play either so can't help there. If he'd asked for comments I could/would have done that.

Towards the end of the long wait for Audition 4, I think the forum was quieter than it is now.  Certainly a new version generates a flurry of activity, and I guess some people keep an eye on the forum to see what's up.  There was the same pattern in the WaveLab forum.

The music side of this forum does seem to have died now; but it was always incidental to the fundamental reason the forum exists as little that happened there was specific to CE/Audition.  I didn't respond to Mark's message for the same reason as others - it fell outside my expertise.  Responding simply to say that would only have been noise.

I reject anywhere between four and ten 'new member' enquiries every day that are obviously automatically generated.

The web-comic forum I administer (also running SMF) checks new applications against a database of reported spammers' IP addresses and email addresses, and blocks about five attempts to register every hour.  But they're not bots - they're mostly a cottage industry in a particular area of China (as revealed by the IP addresses).

Paul

I think I was the first to download MarkT's St. Margaret and listen to it. I suppose that, as a musician (more particularly, a bass player who can play jazz) that I could fiddle around with something like this and make a suggestion or two.  But I didn't...

And I won't!

The internet is a marvellous place for the exchange of ideas. I've made friends, been able to search out products, solutions, and read pages that have contributed to my education and edification. SteveG and others here have contributed greatly to my understanding of AA and general topics! (Ironically, I made a good friend in Norway, Mark's home, whom I met online in another forum.  I have twice travelled there since and even did a small music tour the last time.)

But as an avenue to assuage one's ego, the internet can be a a soothing balm, or a harsh mistress. I post stuff here as an example of what I've been doing, not because I want help musically, or because I crave response. (either good or bad) I spent too many years with my instruments, practicing. When I have needed or wanted musical help, I have learned to do it myself, or found that needed help amongst my real-life musical  friends. As a small studio owner, I am also used to hiring musical talent for session work, or being hired by others to do it elsewhere.

Further, as a small studio owner, I am also used to getting paid for what I do as a business. Right now I'm taking a needed break from editing an album I should have had finished weeks ago... Not that I am above doing things for someone, (I do a lot of it) but without knowing EXACTLY what a client wants or expects, I don't go near projects which are outside my typical genre(s)

So I am sorry to see Mark go. I always thought his posts were cheerful and worthwhile, but I'm also puzzled as to why he feels the need to go public with what sounds almost petulant in some aspects...

[one]

after many years on this forum, with lots of give and take trying to respond to people posting their efforts, even when they weren't my cup of tea at all. I finally realise that there is no quid pro quo; when I post a song asking for some help and over 100 people listen, but not one person can be bothered to post a reply - whether criticism or whatever - then this forum has lost its way and its value.
I wish you all the best in the future - but I fear there is no future to it because the community sprirt has gone!

Ex-member

Isn't this the online equivalent of stamping one's feet and slamming a door? 
Regardless of Mark's contributions or one's personal feelings about his posts, this one seems pretty selfish.  Blaming the entire forum community because no one posted a reply to his post is silly.  Posting about it with the dire prediction of the forum's demise and his departure is really melodramatic. 
When all is said and done, it's just a forum post on the internet.  It isn't a betrayal. 

Isn't this the online equivalent of stamping one's feet and slamming a door?

No. I have done that on another forum and it is rather different. 

It is more like a heavy sigh, heaving your shoulders and silently going away in the night.

It is more like a heavy sigh, heaving your shoulders and silently going away in the night.

....Silently...?

I make it a rule not to comment on mixes. etc. for the simple reason that it's all very subjective and only the person doing the job really knows where he wants to end up. In fact I don't even bother to listen to such requests.

Same here.  I've never participated in that part of the forum.  I would have nothing useful to say.

Just about all the forums I visit get quieter and quieter.  The exception is when there's something new released (software or hardware or firmware).  Perhaps related to the global economic situation?  Less people buying stuff, more people needing to do stuff rather than talking about stuff.

I chiefly visit here - and a number of other forums - for old times' sake.  I do very little audio related things these days but can't quite break the old connections.  And I probably won't in the sense of making any announcement if the time ever comes.  More my style to just drift off.  Nice thing about forums is that normally your membership doesn't expire so you can just come and go as the mood takes one.