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November 10, 2007, 12:17:53 AM
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Topic: How to eliminate all sound but one (or more)  (Read 284 times)
« on: September 29, 2007, 05:33:10 PM »
pintree3 Offline
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OK so we've seen it in movies and TV shows like "Smallville". there is a recording of a room. You can hear a ceiling fan, traffic, music from the loudspeakers and so on. And then one goes on the computer and does this and that to it and you could now only hear the voice of some person talking in the background somewhere. With what and how can one do this?
In my case I would want to use it as such: There is a piece of music that has an instrument or a voice which I don't like but like everything else of it so I would like to eliminate, delete so to speak, that voice or instrument--more often than not it's a saxophone, or  a guy screaming (heavy metal) or a guy wrapping (hip hop).
On the same vain I would like to do the opposite, increase the 'volume' of a given instrument--place something in the background to the foreground.
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Reply #1
« on: September 29, 2007, 06:04:41 PM »
SteveG Offline
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OK so we've seen it in movies and TV shows like "Smallville". there is a recording of a room. You can hear a ceiling fan, traffic, music from the loudspeakers and so on. And then one goes on the computer and does this and that to it and you could now only hear the voice of some person talking in the background somewhere. With what and how can one do this?

Do you really believe everything you see in movies? Most of the so-called 'audio enhancement' they supposedly do is a complete fake. If it wasn't, I'd know... If you see them using Audition, then it may not be - but generally on shows like CSI and all that other garbage that passes for TV entertainment these days, you get faked images of imaginary software doing what is, quite frankly, physically impossible. But...
Quote
In my case I would want to use it as such: There is a piece of music that has an instrument or a voice which I don't like but like everything else of it so I would like to eliminate, delete so to speak, that voice or instrument--more often than not it's a saxophone, or  a guy screaming (heavy metal) or a guy wrapping (hip hop).
On the same vain I would like to do the opposite, increase the 'volume' of a given instrument--place something in the background to the foreground.

For sounds that can be specifically located in the stereo field, you can use Audition's Center Channel Extractor to raise and lower the level of them - but not completely. For instance, if you have a vocal with stereo reverb added to it, with just the main image in the centre, you will, even if it's a good extraction, still have a ghostly echo of the voice left - because the center channel obviously doesn't include the reverb signal. And also, any other instruments in the centre of the soundstage will be eliminated too.

Audition can address this removal issue better than any other software out there, and it's by no means perfect. What they do on those stupid shows is to start with the wanted sound (which they keep separate), and add all the rest of the crap afterwards - just so they can appear to remove it easily!
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Reply #2
« on: September 30, 2007, 05:20:51 AM »
pintree3 Offline
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Hi,

Truly thanks on your imput especially about Audition.

Of course I don't believe most of what I see on TV or even in newspapers for that matter. But such things are possible and were even possible B4 people owned computers in their homes. It's even done with hardware (as seen in "The Conversation" with Gene Hackman--yes another movie.
TV or movies make it seem easy, which it isn't but what do you think the FBI, CIA or NSA does? When you consider one can record a conversation in a room simply by the vibration emitted on a window from the outside.

As to your saying, "If it wasn't, I'd know... ".  really? Explain please.

As to 'Audition": What does it do that 'Cool Edit Pro' does not?

Thanks again--very appreciated
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Reply #3
« on: September 30, 2007, 08:41:56 AM »
Stan Oliver Offline
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Posts: 152



Do a search on vocal removal in this forum; you will find extensive explanation why it is not possible to do what you want to do.

As to your saying, "If it wasn't, I'd know... ".  really? Explain please.

Well, I guess SteveG would tell you, but after that he would have to shoot you... (just a saying from a movie wink )

Mulder
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Reply #4
« on: September 30, 2007, 11:32:04 AM »
SteveG Offline
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...but what do you think the FBI, CIA or NSA does? When you consider one can record a conversation in a room simply by the vibration emitted on a window from the outside.

As to your saying, "If it wasn't, I'd know... ".  really? Explain please.

There's a world of difference between what you can record by covert means, and what you can process - they are essentially unrelated. And as for 'If it wasn't, I'd know', that's no big secret, and it means two things; firstly that I have researched the area considerably - since I've worked in forensic audio in the past, I had to. There are one or two programs around that will let you extract signals from virtually nothing, but the clarity you get still alternates between not good, and pretty dreadful, and is nothing remotely like what you see in the movies. And this is the stuff that the Law Enforcement agencies actually use. You can't just sit there and dial in the settings and have instant magic either - the processing overhead is heavy. And that software isn't American... it's Russian, and seriously expensive. Yes, American Law Enforcement agencies use Russian software - come to that, so do a few others.

Secondly, I've been involved with enough film projects in the past to know exactly how much fakery is involved - because I've done some of it, and it can only be described as 'extensive'. Probably the biggest bit I've personally had a hand in (and this is getting away from audio somewhat) was in Superman 3 - about which I could give away a lot, but I'm not going to, because it would spoil the enjoyment somewhat. You won't find any of the names involved, or even the company name, on the credits though - we were given a tough choice about that, which was a bit mean, considering what we'd done. It was either 'have your company name in the credits, or don't get paid'. No contest, I'm afraid.

Quote
As to 'Audition": What does it do that 'Cool Edit Pro' does not?

In this context, the Center Channel Extractor in Audition (from 1.5 onwards) is completely different, and much better. Uses entirely different technology, and at the time it was released it hacked off some of the competition more than a little, I have to say. It's one of Audition's secret weapons that you simply can't get anywhere else, whatever you pay.
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Reply #5
« on: September 30, 2007, 04:19:32 PM »
pintree3 Offline
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Posts: 12



thanks for the details and all else
Cheers to all
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