any update on Vista support?

I'm not going to deconstruct this thoroughly either, but there are one or two points to make:

However, my clients expect more from me, including getting their systems working and the subsystems working well.  They tend to want the latest and greatest in applications and Operating Systems.

Well if they think that's Vista, with all of its potential DRM time bombs, they'd be somewhat mistaken about 'greatest', wouldn't they?

I have looked into the ASIO drivers, and installed a substitute ASIO driver that is called ASIO4ALL, V2.  The sound card is a Realtek (Intel) AC`97 and is reporting itself as a 16Bit system.  I found that fairly surprising on a 2 yr old ASUSTEK based notebook board, but I have had other surprises in life.

Why should you be surprised about a laptop internal sound chip being crap? They all are, without exception. They are intended for use as internet telephony devices, by and large, and 16 bit sound is a bit of a luxury for that, quite frankly. Also, a little investigation of this site would have led you to realise that we are well aware of ASIO4ALL, and have been recommending its use for a lot of 'legacy' sound devices - and also some not-so-legacy ones as well. You may have realised this, but judging from the way you wrote the above, you don't appear to.

Saying "do nothing" may work for the less technically oriented.

Wrong argument...

The frustration is the amount of time invested to not get the desired result, and the fact that no on at Adobe seems to think solving the Vista problems is a priority.  My call to, and other interactions with Adobe technical support have left me planning to choose an alternative to Adobe for my next Audio Studio Software investment.

Quite frankly, Vista isn't a priority. As an OS to use in a production environment where people are working to deadlines, or trying to make a living, the last thing anybody wants is a system with the potential to take out half of your hardware without so much as a 'by your leave' if it chooses. Microsoft have to address the DRM issues comprehensively before it's worth anybody seriously contemplating this OS for production applications in a commercial environment - and that is where Adobe sell most seats of Audition. You may not agree with Adobe's stance over this, but I think that they know what they're doing, in waiting for the dust to settle.

Adobe charges a good price for their applications.  We are not talking about "freeware" here.

Yes, if you compare Audition to any of the other expensive software out there, it is a good price - well less than half the price of some of the competition, in fact. I'm not talking about M. Mouse apps like Goldwave or voice recognition software, but the real competition. It's a similar price to Sound Forge - but unlike SF it is a multitrack application. It's way cheaper than Samplitude, Wavelab or Nuendo for instance - which all cost a fortune.

I appreciate your thoughts on this.  My goal is a working audio editing system that produces high quality and professional sounding results.

When I mentioned Goldwave and Dragon in my earlier post, I meant that as a diagnostic--that the mechanics of the audio subsystem were working, rather than a suggestion of comparability between products.  If I thought Dragon or Goldwave were adequate solutions to my audio editing needs (dragon is not an audio editing application and I did not think it was), I would certainly not have stepped up to Audition.

My complaint is that the foundational elements of Vista have been available to the developer community for several months. For Adobe to "brush off" my tech support request with "Vista is not a supported OS" is an inadequate response from a vendor that produces products at the level and price point of Adobe. 

 I am not, in any way, an apologist for Microsoft.  I find them frustrating to deal with, and realize that their purpose is solely to enrich their stockholders.  There are a lot of good things in Vista, most notably that it uses memory more efficiently-which should help in audio and video editing. 

My goal in my post has been to lay out the steps I have taken and the information gleaned in the hope of finding an answer that will solve my technical problem.  I believe Adobe has more responsibility than they are owning.  However, I have obligations too.  It is on me to find out how to make it work.  It is on me to determine which way to go with my in depth audio editing functions. 

As to my purpose, I am a hypnotist and hypnosis instructor (that is my passion, IT is what  I am doing as I build my practice - A+ and Microsoft Certified).  I want to produce high quality CD's for my clients and for sale.  I am a novice at Audio editing.  I want to do well, so I am turning to the AudioMasters to learn from the best. 

If I were to invest in a mid range sound audio i/o board what would you recommend?  What price range?  I am willing to dedicate a PC to this process and to custom build what would be anywhere from good to excellent for my purposes.  Thank you for your help.

My goal is a working audio editing system that produces high quality and professional sounding results.

Most of us already have one - and that's the basic reason we are not looking to Vista at this moment in time.

My goal is a working audio editing system that produces high quality and professional sounding results.

Many/most of here share you goal....and have attained it using Audition and XP.

If you read several previous threads here, you will see that, far from a rush to move to Vista, most people here are reluctant to make this change.

Concerns range from the well-documented DRM issues to the great dearth of drivers for proper professional-grade sound cards.  (Of course these concerns are linked since MS is insisting on all the DRM rubbish being included in any hardware to be approved for Vista.)

I think Adobe is taking exactly the right course with Vista.  To quote one academic paper that was linked to here, for MS, Vista may become the longest suicide note in history.

Bob

Of course, for those people for whom the computer isn't simply for running Audition, the Vista situation is a very frustrating one, and thoughts might well turn to Macs and Pro Tools!

Of course, for those people for whom the computer isn't simply for running Audition, the Vista situation is a very frustrating one, and thoughts might well turn to Macs and Pro Tools!

Why can't they just continue with an OS that already works, and has most of the bugs ironed out of it? If you jump to a Mac, you aren't exactly escaping from anything...

Microsoft are very good at promising 'jam tomorrow', and in fact their business model depends on it. I don't see why we all have to fall for it, though! But make no mistake; they absolutely depend on creating dissatisfaction with existing product in order to entice you to spend more money with them. This time I think they've screwed themselves somewhat - until they fix some of the issues properly, and not Hollywood-style.

Of course, for those people for whom the computer isn't simply for running Audition, the Vista situation is a very frustrating one, and thoughts might well turn to Macs and Pro Tools!

Just for fun I ran the Vista upgrade check on the laptop that I use for most things and received of huge list of new drivers etc. I'd have to find.  As far as I'm concerned, Vista is full of bugs and hassles, it would eat up memory on my computer and frankly doesn't offer anything i want or need in terms of advantages.

I have a stable, safe XP system and intend to stay that way.  Unless there are some major improvements, I'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Vista camp.

Bob

Just for fun I ran the Vista upgrade check on the laptop that I use for most things and received of huge list of new drivers etc. I'd have to find.  As far as I'm concerned, Vista is full of bugs and hassles, it would eat up memory on my computer and frankly doesn't offer anything i want or need in terms of advantages.

I have a stable, safe XP system and intend to stay that way.  Unless there are some major improvements, I'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into the Vista camp.

Bob

You could, of course, use the same argument about upgrading from Win2000 to XP. In fact I still use W2k a lot here and it works very well as a relatively small stable OS.

My position is to have no position until my copy of Vista arrives. I bought the newest machine in January and ordered the 'free' Vista upgrade on Jan 30th. A phone call this week to ask what was happening, as I'm listed on the upgrade site as 'COA Verified', just confirmed that they were overwhelmed with checking all the proofs of purchase and no date for delivery was available.

Meanwhile, I'm having my first flirtation with XP Media Center Edition on this new laptop. So far, and I'm only playing with non-serious programming, I'm utterly unimpressed. What on earth is it all about? Does anyone use the Media Center bits on a laptop? All it seems to do here is put a huge garish always on top overlay over things like the (software) indication of the playback volume setting. Maybe I'll start a discussion in the OT area about Win MCE!

I've heard that there are serious issues with the Media Center version, and that it's no good for any production purposes at all. Isn't this the platform on which they initially did the DRM experiments?

You could, of course, use the same argument about upgrading from Win2000 to XP. In fact I still use W2k a lot here and it works very well as a relatively small stable OS.

Actually, I DID use the same argument prior to eventually moving to XP, except in my case it was from Win98SE.  Indeed, it was the first XP-only version of Audition that finally forced my change. 

At least by doing it that way (i.e. waiting a year or two), when I DID make the change, it was to a mature, tested version of the product for which there were no driver issues.

In the future I may well be forced to change to Vista to run a particular piece of software and, if the software is important enough to me, I will do so.  However, I won't be changing for the sake of change....I have to see tangible advantages.  Alas, at present I see no advantages and lots of disadvantages.

Bob

Do we take our hats of to Microsoft this time for NOT rushing Vista out in true UN-American style .. or does anyone know whether there is a fundamental problem in the Vista architecture that has caused the awful delays?

The other point that has to be made, is that I'm using a computer and I like the internet becasue I'm one of those people who likes innovation, gets excited at the latest thing, and I suspect that I am characteristic of most of us here, so it comes as a some surprise to discover people are reluctant to explore the latest thing (you seem to be acting out of character is what I'm saying) .. drivers not available notwithstanding.

The other point that has to be made, is that I'm using a computer and I like the internet becasue I'm one of those people who likes innovation, gets excited at the latest thing, and I suspect that I am characteristic of most of us here, so it comes as a some surprise to discover people are reluctant to explore the latest thing (you seem to be acting out of character is what I'm saying) .. drivers not available notwithstanding.

I'm much more excited by the latest tools to get work done than I am by the underlying operating system. If there was a tool that would only run on Vista then I would seriously think about upgrading but, at the moment, there is nothing that I can think of that only runs on Vista and I don't think we'll see that for a long time to come. The big step up in PC operating systems was the move to Windows NT based operating systems from DOS based operating systems. I moved over when Windows 2000 (NT version 5) came out while others waited for the more user friendly XP (NT version 5.1). Vista is simply Windows NT version 6, although for audio it as larger step as the driver model has changed.

Cheers

James.

.....so it comes as a some surprise to discover people are reluctant to explore the latest thing (you seem to be acting out of character is what I'm saying) .. drivers not available notwithstanding.

I'd say we were acting entirely in character.  Many forum members are either involved in commercial recording or are very serious amateurs - they are not kids trying to produce 'beatz' and they do not believe the secret of success is to have the latest gear.

For those of us who rely on our machines to earn a crust, we're much more interested in maintaining a working and stable system than in sitting at the bleeding edge of technology.  The driver situation is, undoubtedly, the main reason many of us do not want to make the jump yet.  I'm quite prepared to wait for those who have the time (but not the clients) to work out all the bugs.  I'm actually surprised that you are not being more conservative, since you fall into the 'professional' bracket.

Personally, I moved to XP (from 98) a couple of years ago, when I was forced to through a hardware change.  I benefited from others problems and managed to upgrade with no major problems (they'd already been found) and in many respects it's not been that bad, but the XP system has never been quite as rock solid as the old 98 was - for me, 98SP2 was the best OS I ever ran.  For that reason alone, I am wary of another change in the OS and I shall be putting it off as long as possible,

I don't know if it is really true, but a short article in a hardware related publication said that buying a new PC without Vista is already becoming difficult. While this probably means that Microsoft is pushing Vista strongly (or exclusively) with major computer manufacturers, it could also mean that they are, or maybe soon will, stop putting any legal copies of XP out the door, giving one no choice but Vista, even if one puts together a new machine from the parts bin. Sounds dreadful.

I don't know if it is really true, but a short article in a hardware related publication said that buying a new PC without Vista is already becoming difficult.

Yeah - that's a win-win for Hollywood/Microshaft, isn't it? And a lose-lose for the civilised world...