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dazco
Posts: 452
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 Posted - Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:26 am
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I work in a music school, and we have a room with 16 cubase machines which will soon be replaced. I want to get pc's w/o a soundcard and buy the cards seperatly. At the moment they have E-mu "audio production studio" cards which are used for midi and audio and have 4 1/4" jacks.......2 in, 2 out. Who makes a card which will allow full midi capabilities along with 2-1/4" audio inputs and 2-1/4" audio outputs?
Price is a major issue, so the cheaper the better as long as the audio quality isn't obviously horrible. It definatly doesn't have to be nearly as good as those of you who are production engineers would want. These machines are for learning how to use the software, so super audio quality isn't a big issue.
Thanks....
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AndyH
Posts: 1425
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Posted - Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:17 pm
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I may be totally ignorant, but I have never seen soundcards with 1/4 phone jacks, except in breakout boxes. Self contained PC cards have either RCA jacks or 1/8" mini jacks.
I am also ignorant of midi requirements. The Audiophile 2496, which I have sometimes seen for $150.00, has midi I/O, good audio qualtity, RCA in and out jacks, and S/PDIF coax I/O, but it does not do any midi processing.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:46 pm
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| AndyH wrote: |
| I may be totally ignorant, but I have never seen soundcards with 1/4 phone jacks, except in breakout boxes. Self contained PC cards have either RCA jacks or 1/8" mini jacks. |
Well, that's exactly what the rather popular Mia has - 1/4 balanced jacks on the backplate! Unfortunately, there is no MIDI capability. What you might want to consider is the WaveTerminal 192 with the optional MIDI bracket - but I can tell you now that these aren't that cheap, and that you are only going to find 'professional' cards that meet your spec, and not many of them!
Is there any possibility that you could remove the cards from the old machines and reinstall them in the new ones? Or are you going to [t:98f43cefb5]make a mistake and[/t:98f43cefb5] go for XP and run into potential driver problems?
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dazco
Posts: 452
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Posted - Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 pm
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| Quote: |
| Is there any possibility that you could remove the cards from the old machines and reinstall them in the new ones? Or are you going to make a mistake and go for XP and run into potential driver problems? |
The E-mu cards we have now are shot. About 1/3 of them have problems that are component level. And the cards are $699, so we certainly won't be buying new ones to replace the bad ones. They are much more card than we need, and unreliable to boot.
As for XP...don't worry....i'm no guru, but it doesn't take one to know XP sucks !:DWe're staying with 98.
| Quote: |
| I may be totally ignorant, but I have never seen soundcards with 1/4 phone jacks, except in breakout boxes. Self contained PC cards have either RCA jacks or 1/8" mini jacks. |
Yea, i know most have mini jacks. But the E-mu's we have do indeed have 4-1/4" jacks on the plate, not to mention 2 rca's !
Anyway, if there arent any cards like this to be had, i can make do with the typical stereo mini jacks for in and out. This will just mean more work and inginuity to get everything as theft/vandal-proof, and clean as possible. So if anyone can recomend a card with the standard minis, go ahead. If i can't get quarters, mini's it is.
Thanks.....
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Havoc
Posts: 735
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dazco
Posts: 452
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 1:07 pm
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It seems the Marian is mostly if not only available overseas. (i'm in U.S.)I couln't find it for sale anywhere here, but did find a review where it said they're about $400......too much for us. However, a teacher here said he may be able to get a deal thru a friend who works at Midiman. So i'm off to check on what they have and get an idea of the price range.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 2:10 pm
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I think that you might be able to pick up the Waveterminal 192 and its MIDI bracket for rather less than $400 - and if you want enough for a lab's worth of PCs, you should be able to get an even better price...
I haven't got a good link, but if you put the name in Google, you will get plenty of hits.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 2:23 pm
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And I checked - the Audiophile 2496 does do MIDI - there is a breakout cable to go in that D-connector at the bottom. Maybe this will help? (You'd only have to change all the 1/4" jacks for RCA plugs, just don't use adaptors, whatever you do!)
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dazco
Posts: 452
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 2:51 pm
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Yes, i already looked at the audiophile and decided to get a price on them from the teacher i mentioned who knows someone who works there. It's only $229, and that means $200 or less street, and hopefully $30 or so less with the discount he may get. Seems like the perfect card for our use, plus it has 4 ins and outs instead of mini's. RCA's are just fine. Thanks for the confirmation tho......helps to know someone here who is knowledgable on the subject recommends it.
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AndyH
Posts: 1425
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:23 pm
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I have purchased two Audiophile 2496s, from two different dealers, for $149.00 each. That may be a "special" rather than an every day price, but it indicates the possibilities.
As I said, the card has midi I/O, but no midi processing.
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dazco
Posts: 452
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:27 pm
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Sorry for my ignorance, but i really no nothing about midi other than the very bacic notion of what it is, What does "no midi processing" mean? I dont understand what it means to have midi in/out but no processing. This is something i'll need to understand before considering this card. I'll ask the teachers, but most of them know little (sad but true) or aren't easy to get ahold of to talk to. I'm really trying to get this together with very little help from those who should be helping !!!
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AndyH
Posts: 1425
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 3:42 pm
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I'm about as ignorant as you. I have done zero with midi, but I understand it to be somewhat like vector graphics -- instructions for sound. Those instructions have to be physically converted into signals. That can be in done in specialized hardware or in specialized programs. There are external midi devices, such as keyboards, and there are midi producing programs for computers.
I understand this card to pass the midi signals from and to software on the computer, but to have no ability to convert the midi signals into sounds or sounds into midi signals. Some cards (soundblasters?) do have this ability via additional hardware chips.
Now, perhaps someone who actually knows something about it can tell you the truth.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 4:23 pm
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I see what you mean now, Andy. But MIDI sound generation capabilities on a card aren't usually referred to as 'processing' - this would normally be thought of as the bog-standard MPU-401 stuff, which the Audiophile does do. (I noticed afterwards that you mentioned I/O - I should have looked more carefully.) The noise generation features are usually referred to as 'on-board sound generation', or something like that.
Dazco, what MIDI support does the E-mu card have? Does it use Soundfonts? The reason that I'm asking is that this was the (rather superior) predecessor to the SB Live! card, and I'm not sure what sound generation E-mu actually implemented at this stage...
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dazco
Posts: 452
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 5:24 pm
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Steve,
I really can't say for sure, as like i said i'm a midi moron. But as far as i understand, they're using the card's midi to trigger sounds from a roland SC88 sound canvas and record it. Now i don't understand if what they're recording are the midi signals that will then trigger the SC88 when played back, or if they're using the midi to trigger the 88 and record the resulting digital sounds. I'm getting above my own head here, but thats about all i can say.
However, if you can tell me exactly what i need to ask the teachers in order to decide whether the card will do what they want, i can ask. It may take a few days tho. I'm afraid they may know what they want it to do, yet may not know by looking at a card's specs whether it will accomplish what they want. (needless to say, they should know this stuff intimatly being teachers!!!)
By the way, i'm an electronics guy turned computer tech turned pc audio guy !!! And every step up has taken me further out of my territory. You might say i was thrown into the fire because they didn't want to hire someone who'd know this stuff and require a salary commensurate with thier ability ! While i'm no pc tech, i gotta say i've learned more in the last few weeks than i have in the last year, but what a way to learn !!
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AndyH
Posts: 1425
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 5:35 pm
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This is what the card's manual says. Maybe it could help them to relate.
6. MIDI Input: This 5-pin DIN accepts MIDI data from any external MIDI device, via a standard MIDI cable. Supports up to 16-channels of MIDI data on a single cable.
7. MIDI Output: This 5-pin DIN outputs MIDI data to any external MIDI device, via a standard MIDI cable. Supports up to 16-channels of MIDI data on a single cable.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 5:48 pm
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| dazco wrote: |
Steve,
I really can't say for sure, as like i said i'm a midi moron. But as far as i understand, they're using the card's midi to trigger sounds from a roland SC88 sound canvas and record it. Now i don't understand if what they're recording are the midi signals that will then trigger the SC88 when played back, or if they're using the midi to trigger the 88 and record the resulting digital sounds. I'm getting above my own head here, but thats about all i can say.
However, if you can tell me exactly what i need to ask the teachers in order to decide whether the card will do what they want, i can ask. It may take a few days tho. I'm afraid they may know what they want it to do, yet may not know by looking at a card's specs whether it will accomplish what they want. (needless to say, they should know this stuff intimatly being teachers!!!) |
You might not need to ask them much - it's pretty likely that since the Sound Canvas can only generate sounds from a MIDI input, that they'll be feeding MIDI in from the card. How they get the MIDI into the PC doesn't matter, because the card has MIDI in, which will cope with an external keyboard, and if it's generated internally - well, that's not going to be a problem, is it? But if they are used to using on-board sounds triggered by a software sequencer as well, then it's going to be a little quieter in there, because there isn't one.
The idea of music teachers knowing what they're doing... that's an interesting idea!
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dazco
Posts: 452
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Posted - Tue Oct 22, 2002 7:55 pm
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| The idea of music teachers knowing what they're doing... that's an interesting idea! |
Yea, tell me about it ! This is why i'm going nuts trying to figure it all out myself. It's a friggin joke. By the time i'm done i'll probably be able to teach better then they can !
Anyway, i guess i forgot to mention that there is a keyboard used to trigger midi. An SY77 to be exact. (yamaha)It's setup with the midi in and out of the keyboard going to the midi in and out of the card, then the sound canvas is connected from the midi thru on the keyboard to the midi in of the canvas.
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soundcard suggestions please