Syntrillium Backup Forums :: View topic - Cassette Deck Recommendations/What Do You Use?

RabbitDance · Posted - Fri Jun 21, 2002 7:46 am

Cassette Deck Recommendations

I am about to embark on a large project and was hoping to get some brand/model recommendations on buying an audio cassette deck. I know there are many in this forum who have used a lot of equipment over the years and I hope to get some suggestions based on those experiences. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Here's a little background:

I've got about 75 cassette tapes I wish to archive. The original source of these tapes varies from boombox to 'studio' demos. What I hope to buy, is a deck that will play back every ounce of signal present on the tapes. I'm confident once I get them into CEP, its tools will do an excellent job. Like I said, some of the tapes are from a 'boom box' so it is important to get the most from the tape before getting it into CEP. The recordings are important to me and I would like to do it right the first time. Here's what I know/don't know so far.

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Quick thoughts:-

- Avoid dual decks
- Avoid auto reverse
- Bias is not relevant if playing back
- You should be able to fix pitch afterwards in Cool Edit (though it would add processing time)
- 3 heads may be worth looking for, as a dedicated playback head can be better than a combined record/play head
- More motors tends to be best.
- Beware of second hand machines with worn or badly aligned heads.

As for recommendations - here's one out of left field - I've heard it said several times that the Walkman Pro (Sony WMD6C) was actually a very good sounding machine. Or if you found a Tascam 122 going cheap and in good condition, might be worth thinking about. "Industry standard pro studio cassette deck". Happy hunting

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

I personally would look for a deck that has a way to adjust allignment/azimuth. Each cassette tape will be unique in and of itself and some (most) will require their own allignment to get the best playback. If some of the tapes are dolby encoded, then a player with dolby on/off options (chromium, etc... there are several options) would definitely be a plus. I would also, invest in a degausser (de-magnetizer) to degauss the player with after awhile. Also, get a tape head cleaning kit (not a cleaning cassette) and clean the heads before playing each tape. While your putting in the extra effort to get "the best playback" you can..... when loading a tape up, fastforward the tape to the end and then rewind to "spool" the tape and ensure all slack/kinks are out prior to running the tape for your recording. As for recommending a particular name brand player.... I have an old Nakamichi Dragon (that I wouldn't trade for the world), I also have a Tascam rackmount unit (MK102 MrkII... I think?) that takes up space in one of my racks. I have done the cassette to CEP thing (not much) and it's really cool to be able to put your "old" tapes on CD. If your really brave.... hit the Pawn shops and find a "real" deal on a player. Have them hook it up (of course) and listen/inspect for worthyness. Some really good deals can be had. The irony of this is... some people will toss a good player aside, because it's noisy and they don't know what to do with it. Most the time, (not always) it just needs a good degaussing and cleaning and it's back to good. Smile

Good Luck Voodoo

Teddy G. · Posted - Fri Jun 21, 2002 6:19 pm

I'm really not sure if this is what you want for "mastering" or "re-mastering", as it were, but here's a name to check specs on. I've had great success with all the Marantz portables. They come in several flavors from mono to multi-head, multi-motor stereo, I believe. They are portable decks and I don't know if they include things like easy bias adjust? However, after the 75 tapes are completed, it would be a nice piece to just have around, for sure. Prices are reasonable and build-quality is excellent.
Nakamichi used to be about the best name in cassette decks but I haven't even heard of one in years(a web search would soon see if they're still around).
I hope you'll let us know what you ultimately get and how it works.

beetle · Location: USA

Don't worry about having a three-head deck. A good two-head deck will do the trick.

You can use a dubbing deck only if you use the better of the two sides.

Look for a deck with the lowest wow and flutter spec.

Sometimes, you will come across a dull tape. You can check for misalignment bu playing it in mono. If you hear a swishy sound in mono, you most likely will have to adjust the asimuth to the tape you are playing back. Do this by engaging the mono button on your amp, if you have one, and adjust the upper little screw on the side of the playback head while the tape is playing, being careful not to touch the head itself. Turn the screw until you hear crisp, clear sound from the tape. Hey, it's all part of mastering!

Edited by - beetle on 06/23/2002 02:39:18 AM

rhing · Posted - Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:46 pm

I have a Nakamichi Cassette Deck 3 and I absolutely love it. Any other older Nakamichi 3-head deck with adjustable azimuth/alignment is what you will want for playback only. The ability to make this adjustment can give you a night and day difference in the quality of the sound and S/N ratio, especially if you have tapes recorded on different machines. I've used it to archive tapes into .wav files with CE2K and you simply can't beat the solid reproduction of a Nakamichi cassette deck. To find one may be a bit challenging, but there are enough audio repair shops/refurbishers who sell "good as new" Nakamichi tape decks. I also have two Tascam decks (302 and 202 MKII). They're great ruggedly-built decks for using on the road for playback and recording (they also have a bullet-proof auto-reverse mechanism), but they don't come close to the fidelity of the Nakamichi deck for playback and recording. My Nakamichi deck stays home and never gets lugged around. Back in the good old analog days, a Nakamichi deck was almost as good as an open reel tape deck.

a.schenkel · Location: Switzerland

I have a SONY WM6DC for many years and use it still as a backup
for demanding live recordings (Classical concerts and organ). The
analog cassettes from the SONY are not far in quality from the TASCAM DAT that is basically used for digital production. It has
variable pitch and the R/PB combined head may be adjusted during
playback with a small screwdriver. Although it has both Dolby B and
C for recording, Dolby C is not recommended.

RabbitDance · Posted - Mon Jun 24, 2002 12:20 pm

Thanks everyone for posting your thoughts/recommendations. I've narrowed my search down to a few models. Some of the Nakamichi model look nice, but they might be too expensive, even used. I like a couple of the tascam models, 122 mkII and III. I'm also keeping an eye out for some of the other models suggested, in case I come across a good deal. I think I now know what to look for and what to expect. I think I can probably get a nice-solid used one, for the price of a new 'bells and whistles' model. I'll post back once I buy one and let you know how I like it. Thanks again for the info.

PS. I had no idea I was adjusting the azimuth all those times. I've got an older akai reel-to-reel and I always used to play with the screws on the heads until I could 'tune-in' the best signal. I figured they must be there for a reason. Now I know what to call it. Thanks.

AndyH · Posted - Fri Jun 28, 2002 1:56 pm

VoodooRadio, I've held off asking what might seem exceptionally ignorant, but I can resist no longer. Can you describe a "tape head cleaning kit ," or pont out where one might obtain such a thing. Those cassettes with the scrubber pads are the best I have seen, and they are none too good.

I have tried various devices, such as wooden shaft q-tips, but results are less than adequate. It is sooo difficult to get at the capstan wheels to scrub them, down in those cassette wells, that my fingers are always non-functional for hours afterwards and the results are not very satisfactory anyway.

Ok, its the pinch rollers I am really talking about (isn't that the proper name of those rubber wheels that press the tape against the drive?)

Edited by - AndyH on 06/28/2002 2:13:46 PM

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

Hi AndyH,
I'm sorry if mentioning "the kit" was confusing. Years ago, I bought "a kit" at a local independant record shop that had basically a small bottle of isopropyl alcohol and some single ended swabs (like Q-tips). Of course, I used it up over a period of time and replenished the supplies in the box with a larger bottle of Iso Alco and some more Q-tips. I also have some cotton balls and small pieces of 100% cotton clothe (T-shirt cut up) in the box. I have mentioned buying a degausser in previous threads, and I'm pretty sure that I indicated mine was a Tascam. In fact, after looking again, mine is a TEAC E-3 that I purchased about 5-6 years ago at Guitar Center for about $50. I agree with you on the "cleaning cassette".... I never trusted dragging "a scrubbing" anything across the record/playback heads! Anyways, my "kit" travels in one of my gig bags and has saved alot of headache over the years for both myself and others. Don't leave home without it! Smile

Good Luck Voodoo

http://www.readnaturally.com/faqs-equip-tapeslastlong.htm

jester700 · Posted - Sat Jun 29, 2002 5:16 pm

Andy, figure out what little keys in the cassette well tell the machine a tape is inserted. Then fool them somehow so the machine runs while the door is open. Hold the damp Q-Tip against the pinch roller, taking care not to let it get bound up in the capstan (this is easier with foam than cotton).

SteveG · Location: United Kingdom

Using Q-tips for cleaning cassette mechanisms is a pain! You always get cotton wool wrapped around things you don't want it wrapped around. Years ago, Sony used to make a much better alternative, and with a bit of care, you can fabricate your own. Basically, all you need is a small strip off the side of one of those really thin car-washing chamois leathers. If you fold and glue about an inch of this over the end of a really thin bit of plastic or wood that's about 1/4" wide so it doesn't come off, you end up with a much more robust, but still non-scratching head, capstan and pinch roller cleaner.

Steve

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Quite often the manual doesn't mention it, but the cassette door may be readily removeable / unclippable which makes matters infinitely easier. Just don't wrench it off it is isn't!

AndyH · Posted - Mon Jul 01, 2002 2:55 pm

Interestingly enough, after posting that question, I realized that removing the well covers exposes an opening in the bottom of the cassette well. I have ofter removed the covers, but, from the top opening, I find little improvment.

If I close the wells and run the mechansim, the pinch rollers move into view in that bottom opening. I can achieve this by using a cassette shell from which I removed the tape. This gives much easier access to the captstans and pinch rollers. Unfortunatly the dupping deck, the one I use most often, does not have removable well covers.

I have used the "some fingers activating the swithches while other fingers attempt to position the q-tips." For me, it is a miserable experience. It is difficult to coordinate and the well is too crowded thereby to allow easy manipulation.

Troubles never cease. Looking around the web, I found a couple of recommendations that said never never use alcohol on the rubber parts (other maintenance articles make no mention of such a restriction). I therefore found some rubber parts "deglazing and revitalizing" fluid. It is supposed to soak on the rubber parts for 15 minutes before cleaning. This seems to eliminate the fix in the first paragraph because the mechanism must be running for that easier access to be available. Oh well, I will have to try manufacturing some swabs on a rigid handle for what advantage that should give over q-tips.

jester700 · Posted - Mon Jul 01, 2002 7:47 pm

Yeah, over time isopropyl is supposed to dry out rubber. You can find Tascam/Teac rubber cleaner in some music stores...

I've not had trouble on my 12 year old cassette machine yet. Maybe I need to clean it more often... ;-)

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

I've always heard the same thing about the Isopropyl and rubber, but..... I've used it for @ 25 years or so and haven't had a problem. As for the Q-tips, I usually use them to apply the alcohol and then I use a small piece of cotton clothe (T-shirt material) wrapped around another Q-tip to do the dirty work (scrubbing). Good Luck Voodoo

Teddy G. · Posted - Tue Jul 02, 2002 6:42 pm

1. Lessons learned here are that before one purchases something that gets dirty, can it be cleaned at all conveniently and that we must transfer to the later media while the great orange orb is still in the sky.
2. Go ahead and use alcohol on the heads and rubber "pucks". Though it is not the best cleaning fluid for rubber as it does dry it out, there is little available today that does any better. Unfortunately(?), the higher Isopropyl concentration(70%) works much better and does not leave as much residue as the normally found drug store alcohol(Ask the pharmacist). Of course it's likely to dry things out even sooner...
3. Good, non-shedding foam scrubs are(used to be???) easily found in the VCR cleaning department, or at the local TV service persons supply shop(also becoming a thing of the past), as were the "chamois-ended" scrubs. Neither were as effective as cotton "Q-Tips" in getting into the "nooks and crannies" or holding the cleaning fluid. Just, somehow, reach in there and pull out the cotton that winds around the capstan, (remembering that you bought the stupid non-cleanable thing all the while...). Of course, no matter how you do it, by winding the cotton around the moving capstan or other, the capstan needs cleaned too! As do all the guides the tape runs through.
4. Don't let alcohol seep/drip down into the machine motors. The fluid removes the lubrication! Then the least of your problems will be dirty heads and pucks. This is a WHOLE lot easier warned against than it is accomplished. Keep the fluids off the plastic parts! OOPS, tiny parts of most cheap heads are made of plastic... Good luck.
5. Try places like Parts Plus for "rubber restoring fluid". My favorite brand was called "Rubber Drive Cleaner" and came in a tiny bottle. It did a superb job at cleaning and softening the rubber, making it "like new", in appearance and function. Of course, again "unfortunately", one must use the rubber-restoring fluid, then follow this by a scrub-down with more drying alcohol to remove the, rather oiley, restoring fluid...? All of these things will work well until...
6. The puck is now worn-down too small to work properly, through much use and that even the restorer cannot penetrate the entire puck to keep it from drying. So, a source of new pucks would be nice(Good luck). Also, by this time the heads will have to be replaced or re-lapped(professionally smoothed). Try to find someone to do that for your 200 dollar cassette machine heads(for less than 200 dollars anyway)...
6. I believe the current term for cassette machines in general would be... "Legacy devices"? We used to call outdated equipment "Boat Anchors".

One would hope that much like our parents stock of 8mm film, someone is quick enough to get anything important now on audio cassette transferred to a newer medium as best they can(This takes unlikely vigilance and dedication). Of course, by the time Dad realized his films were crumbling, it was too late. All the affordable transfer technology had disappeared and even the now non-replacable rubber drive puck in his GAF 8mm projector had crumbled to dust, even if he had found a triangular video transfer screen at a yard sale for 3 dollars... Feel heartened(?) by realizing that Hollywood once had thousands of movies that we will never see as they quite literally dried up and turned to dust before anyone bothered to do anything about it. Most old cassettes will now be found to have long ago been rendered unusable and non-transferable(Even with that "mint" Nakamichi) for the same and many other reasons. Witness, my "boxes full" of the rattley, squeeley, printed-through things...

Best success,

Ted

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

While in the military, I used to make extra cash DJing at EM clubs. At the time, cassette was the format of choice and I had (and still have) @ 600 tapes. After getting out of the service, I mindlessly stored them (of course still in cases) in the garage. Most of them have been reduced to totally useless. I occasionally get the urge to dig through and find an old favorite to see if it's serviceable. I have "flown" a few into CEP and cleaned them up. Hindsight is 20/20. Had I known sooner about using software for restoration, then I would have (and would probably still be) transferring them to archive. Sad

I had/have a fairly huge collection that covered alot of genre's. (I played what people wanted to hear) Good Luck Voodoo

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Good summary, Teddy F.! I must be lucky - I've yet to come across an unplayable cassette, even ones made on that original Philips mono portable (1970?). I have more trouble with open-reels. All formats have been stored indoors, however - apart from when they travelled by sea freight from UK to Australia, which they survived fine, to my relief......

RabbitDance · Posted - Wed Jul 17, 2002 8:58 am

Thanks to everyone who posted with suggestions. I've purchased a Tascam 122 MKII and I'm pleased with it so far (I guess it's relative as I was using the headphone out on a Walkman before Blush

) I've got some head cleaner, a degausser and I'm going to pick up a jeweler's screwdriver so I can adjust the playback azimuth. I plan on doing the mono playback method of determining correct azimuth. Then it's archive city for me. I've got a couple questions before I begin though, if anyone can help.

1) Should I make a reference tape before adjusting anything? This unit comes with a built in oscillator that can generate tones. Actually I'm sure I will (shouldn't take long), but I guess really what I want to know is there a good way to do this? (in case I want to put it back the way I found it)

2) Is there anyone out there who knows which screw will adjust the playback azimuth? Are there clues as to it's likely location? On this model, there is an assembly that holds the record head on the left and then the playback head on the right. There are three screws, one on the lower left of the entire assembly, one on the upper right, and one on the lower right. I've emailed Tascam, but they would not answer the question and, in turn, referred me to buying a photocopy of the manual. It's better than a sharp stick in the eye, but, I'm not convinced the manual will even answer my question (the service manual for the Tascam 122 MKIII, a later model, makes no reference to the location of the screws). Under the cassette housing there is a depression, almost a hole, that seems to line up with the lower left screw. That's probably it, right? It seems to make sense that this adjustment would be made often and designing easier access to it would be reason for this 'hole'. Any one who knows or can help me in the right direction would be appreciated. Thanks again.

ozpeter · Location: Australia

Hi RabbitDance,

Glad you are pleased with your Tascam. If I were you (bear in mind that I haven't actually got one like yours) I'd generate some white noise in Cool Edit and record that onto the best cassette you can find, and use that as a get-you-back-to-where-you-were reference. As regards adjustment screws, I'd home home in on the one with the user-friendly hole. If there are three, that provides for front-to-back and side-to-side and up-and-down, if you think about it; side-to-side without altering up-and-down or front-to-back is what you want to check first. Also, have you tried searching for "tascam 122 azimuth" (no quotes) on google or the like? You might get some useful info.

- Ozpeter

SteveG · Location: United Kingdom

The answer to your point two is as follows: The adjustment screw is either immediately to the left, or to the right, of the playback head unless this uses a rocking system (which is unlikely). One side of the head mounting plate is fixed, and the other side is mounted on a spring, which is compressed by a screw through it which is the adjustment - you are changing the amount that the spring is compressed. It's very rare to find zenith (AKA 'tilt', 'front to back') adjustments, because this is a far less critical parameter in terms of the audio performance than the azimuth. A couple of degrees of zenith misalignment is unnoticeable, but a couple of degrees of azimuth error sounds absolutely dreadful!

If you want to get the azimuth absolutely correct on a cassette deck, you should buy an azimuth test tape, and adjust the replay according to the instructions. Then make your own reference tape of white noise and use this for 'working' adjustments. This saves unnecessary wear on your original test tape.

Steve

motorhead6 · Posted - Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:15 pm

I do a lot of that kind of thing. I have a lot of cassette decks. Personally, the one I allways use and like the best, is my Technics M56. Those old decks are way easier to clean and having clean heads and everything else that the tape touches will make a big difference. So will demagnetizing with a demagnetizer that plugs into the wall, not one of those so called cassette tape "demagnetizers".

mcaudio1 · Posted - Sat Aug 03, 2002 1:36 am

Don't overlook the newer Technics pro-sumer lines either. I have the Nakamichi and needed a couple extra dubbing decks a few years back. A supplier out of Houston told me he was selling them so fast to studios around the US he couldn't get enough of them. I waited my turn, and a few weeks later I got them. They have performed flawlessly with no more than usual maintainance. They're not the Nakamichi, but they're closer than I ever expected. Less than $200 at the time.

Andrew Rose · Location: United Kingdom

Just a quick question: why clean the pinch roller? Where's the sonic advantage here?

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

AndyH · Posted - Fri Aug 09, 2002 2:50 pm

My experience says that muck on the pinch roller encourages the tape to wind around the capstan rather than around the take-up reel. Plus, left long enough, it results in a hard surface that, as Graeme says, produces slippage and gross sonic disturbance.

Teddy G. · Posted - Fri Aug 09, 2002 3:31 pm

Ozpeter...
Far as REEL-TO-REEL tapes. It has been suggested(and most places I've been have done so) to store them "backwards", as in, run the tape onto a "take-up" reel and store them on the "take-up" reel. Rewind them to play them back onto what would now be, what? The up-take reel? Idea was to "cover" the "print-through" that would likely occur from long-term storage. Print through would be the "magnetically charged particles" of the recording "charging" adjacent layers of the tape. By storing them "wound-through"(?), the low-level noises made by the print-through, that would show up most at noiseless spots on the tape "between tracks", would be "covered" by the desired recorded material. We often went so far as to never "re-wind" a reel to reel master(the current "in-use" production master tape at a radio station, for example), except for playback. So even "short-term", the idea was to avoid the problem, as well as to try not to record over someone elses masterpiece, of course! This last was not always entirely successful. "Blip-bloop.blip, blip, blap......"

This storage method, of course, of little value for cassettes and some reel to reel tapes that "played both ways" and would likely have obvious print-through no matter what.

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

Graeme (of course) is right in that the correct term is "tail out". We for years also referred to this as "running off" (i.e. running the take off the play reel). 2nd's or Assistants always had to stay late, run off tape, store reels, sweep and lock up. Smile

Good Luck Voodoo

mcaudio1 · Posted - Fri Aug 09, 2002 9:22 pm

Word to the wise - working in radio for quite a while it was hard to convince local and regional studios to not send dubs to us "tails". The jocks go in to do production and you can hear them yelling from clear down the hall about it. The national studios sent everything "heads". "tails" is absolutely correct as a storage habit or for larger tape, but keep good PR with the locals if you're doing jingles and ad production and send them "heads". Your reputation as a good engineer will not suffer from such a minor indiscretion. Besides, most dubs are digital today and if you don't send them that way they will probably end up that way in production and the reel will either be tossed or re-used anyway. It always went against my grain, but the jocks wanted it that way.

jester700 · Posted - Sat Aug 10, 2002 12:56 pm

Also, any deck that uses NR effectively eliminates print through effects. I've never noticed print through on Dolby C or dbx encoded tape. Tape without NR was another story...

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

No doubt, there are differences in medium management in Radio vs. Recording Studio. Smile

Good Luck Voodoo

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

zemlin · Location: USA

Regarding clean pinch rollers - if your pinch roller picks up a goober it raises hell with the tape speed. Not likely to happen, but it has happened to me.

jester700 · Posted - Mon Aug 12, 2002 5:54 am

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

TonyCzar · Posted - Sat Aug 31, 2002 7:29 pm

FYI, I sent a collection of personally valuable cassettes (after making MiniDisc backups) to cassettes2cds.com. They do this transfer for $8 per tape; less in volume. I was pleased with the results.

TonyCzar

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

VoodooRadio · Location: USA

LOL! Well, again...... to each his/her own. As Graeme is alluding to in his post, you have the means (CEP) right in front of you to do the job yourself. Good Luck Voodoo

Andrew Rose · Location: United Kingdom

Thanks to this topic I finally sorted out my little cassette deck niggles by buying a Nakamichi and I'm absolutely delighted that I did as the sound improvement is superb. One thing to note though is that the best deal seemed to be from a hi-fi shop which had taken it in as a part exchange and then sold it with a 3 month guarantee. I've been watching the auctions on e-Bay and prices there for Naks seem to be quite a bit higher - just this week an inferior model that was actually broken went for 20% more than I paid for mine! Classified ads also don't seem to fully take into account the way the cassette deck market has collapsed, much in the same way as people seem to have inflated beliefs about what their old PCs are worth.

Shop around and you'll find a really good machine - mine's a DR-2 and it cost me £99 (about $150). It beats hands down the top of the range Aiwa I had before, together with all the pro and semi-pro decks (Revox, Marantz, Sony etc.) I've ever come across at the BBC. Get one of these and look after it - at the present rate it won't be long before cassette restorations become a major source of potential revenue.

BTW a good place to find out about Nackamichi decks is http://www.naks.com

Graeme · Member Location: Spain