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tomcat Location: USA Posts: 345	Posted - Tue Jun 04, 2002 8:34 am  With price not being a factor, which is better overall; iZotope Ozone or Waves Gold Bundle? _________________ Tom Robinson Production Supervisor WLAV/WKLQ/WODJ/WBBL Grand Rapids, Michigan
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:23 am  Waves Gold Bundle WINS hands down. Check out IK Multimedia's T-Racks. IMO it definitely gives oozone more than a run for the money. Good Luck Voodoo _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Tue Jun 04, 2002 11:38 am  You're not really comparing like with like. The Waves Gold bundle has rather more in it than Ozone, which is specifically a 64-bit mastering tool which chains 6 apps together the way you want to. The Waves plugins are only 48-bit, and rather less processor-intensive, but they cover a much wider range of applications. Okay, I've got, and use, Ozone, but that doesn't mean that I don't appreciate the value of the Waves stuff. As a one-stop Mastering app that can give you excellent results, Ozone for me is pretty much unbeatable. But you could certainly acheive pretty much the same thing with the Waves package - only it would take you a lot longer, because it would be much harder to hear the combined effect of different processes. So I can't say get one or the other, really. It depends on the way you like to work, as much as anything. Let's face it - at this level, plugins are usually amazingly good anyway. Waves plugins have always had an excellent reputation, and Ozone has also got a dedicated following, and they both deserve them. You really have to decide, based on your own priorities. Steve _________________
tomcat Location: USA Posts: 345	Posted - Thu Jun 06, 2002 10:09 am  Thanks for the input! _________________ Tom Robinson Production Supervisor WLAV/WKLQ/WODJ/WBBL Grand Rapids, Michigan
Craig Jackman Location: Canada Posts: 909	Posted - Fri Jun 07, 2002 5:34 am  It depends on what you want out of your plugins. With a couple of notible exceptions, the CEP built ins will do what Waves does ... the exceptions are the C4 parametric processor, Maxx Bass, and the Renaissence Compressor. Yes, you can play with band splitting and multiple compressors and EQ to emulate a C4, but that's awkward. With the optical emulation, nothings sounds quite like the RenComp, but the CEP compressor is quite good. Plus Waves are very expensive. It would be many time more awkward to try to get CEP to do what Ozone does. You could do it, but it would take forever. If you think about how much you are paying yourself to do audio, and what Ozone costs, then Ozone becomes an unbeatable deal. While T-Racks is nice, it's a separate program. You have to exit from whatever you're working on to go into T-Racks, manipulate your file, save it, then go back into CEP. That can be a pain. While T-Racks is easier to use, Ozone gives many times more creative possibilites. _________________ Craig Jackman Production Supervisor CHEZ/CKBY/CIOX/CJET/CIWW Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
Craig Jackman Location: Canada Posts: 909	Posted - Fri Jun 07, 2002 5:35 am  Forgot to add that Waves still use dongle copy protection which some don't like. Doesn't bother me that much, but that's just me. _________________ Craig Jackman Production Supervisor CHEZ/CKBY/CIOX/CJET/CIWW Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Fri Jun 07, 2002 7:02 am  Hi Tomcat, Craig is right on about T-Racks being a separate program. I personally don't have a problem with opening and closing files. Does Ozone have more functions.... yes. At the Mastering stage, there should be very little (if any) more that your mix requires. If you did a good job of tracking and mixing, then you might not even need any type "mastering". I guess the reason I like T-racks, is for years I mixed without any access to mastering tools. I always took/take the effort to ensure that my mixes are the best they can be during the tracking and mixing stage. When I bought T-racks, I spent alot of time going through old and current mixes to see how they could benefit from it's use. Due to the simplicity of T-Racks, the learning curve (like CEP) was basically nil. Most mixes (I'm proud to say), didn't need anything. The few that did, benefitted from the multi-band EQ. T-Racks is a 3 module kit with Multi-band EQ, Compressor and Limiter.... what more could you possibly need at the "mastering" stage? Powerful and easy to use.... gets my vote. Good Luck Voodoo _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
tomcat Location: USA Posts: 345	Posted - Fri Jun 07, 2002 10:47 am  Thanks Steve, Craig, and VDR! I have used a co-workers Waves on his home set-up, and loved the Renaissence Compressor and Ultra Maxamizer. I downloaded the demo version of Ozone, and it's too big for my screen! The only way I can get the whole thing on the screen is if I put my screen resolution at some weird setting (can't remember what it was, offhand). Anyway, thanks again! Edited by - tomcat on 06/07/2002 10:49:01 AM _________________ Tom Robinson Production Supervisor WLAV/WKLQ/WODJ/WBBL Grand Rapids, Michigan
post78 Location: USA Posts: 2887	Posted - Sat Jun 08, 2002 8:46 pm  I love Waves, and I think they have a Platinum bundle out now which is something else to consider. I think it has the software version of an L2, which is supposed to be much better than golds L1 (which is itself [t:e30c086b7b]excelent[/t:e30c086b7b] excellent). Quote: [Waves is] rather less processor-intensive Well, I don't have Ozone, so I'm not sure how much it uses, but I can tell you that Waves is a memory hog, all the way. Damn QWERTY! Edited by - post78 on 06/08/2002 8:49:59 PM _________________ Answer = 1. Probably.
clothesburner Location: USA Posts: 412	Posted - Tue Aug 06, 2002 12:58 pm  Not much to add here except that I've been spending a lot of time with Ozone lately, and man, now that I've got the hang of it, the results have been pretty satisfying. I especially love the fact that a person can add delay to certain frequency ranges to recreate stereo as opposed to delay on individual tracks.... definately seperates the men from the boys. Oh, one more thing. With Ozone, it's so easy to go in and check for and correct phasing problems.
post78 Location: USA Posts: 2887	Posted - Tue Aug 06, 2002 2:29 pm  Waves' multi-tap can do the same. It can delay any certain range of frequencies you specify. _________________ Answer = 1. Probably.
HSZone Posts: 82	Posted - Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:35 am  Quote: °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° I downloaded the demo version of Ozone, and it's too big for my screen! @tomcat °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°° Ozone needs best a 19 inch screen or bigger. It should just fit on a 17 inch tho. In fact that counts for audio applications too.
jonrose Location: USA Posts: 2901	Posted - Wed Aug 07, 2002 12:02 pm  More specifically, Ozone needs a 1024x768 screen-res to display correctly. It won't fit on 800x600 (even with CEP version 1.2a, where those huge preset areas don't display). But yes, a lot of people run 800x600, primarily because they don't have a big enough monitor... ;) Best... -Jon _________________
tptman Posts: 59	Posted - Mon Aug 12, 2002 3:12 pm  Waves no longer uses dongles, I've got Gold 3.5, and they are now using Pace software instead of the dongle. I have not used Ozone, and so can't compare the two, but Waves really is top notch. L1+, C4, RenVerb are all great plugs.
Josef K. Posts: 27	Posted - Tue Aug 27, 2002 2:16 pm  Wavelab allows you to edit montage style like ozone except youre choice of plugs is unlimited. Ozone limits you to what ozone offers. It also has uv dithering which I dont think ozone has.
post78 Location: USA Posts: 2887	Posted - Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:45 am  I think that you're confusing Wavelab (the program) with Waves plugins. This is what we've been discussing: http://www.waves.com/ _________________ Answer = 1. Probably.
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:32 am  "umm you have seen the price for the platinium bundle....?" I bought Native Gold Bundle last week-end. It listed for $1300, and Evan's Music City in Houston had it marked down 50%. It still was expensive. Good Luck Voodoo _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
post78 Location: USA Posts: 2887	Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 11:00 am  Voodoo: You're going to LOVE the Gold Bundle! I don't know what I'd do without it, though I wouldn't have minded that deal back then... :-( _________________ Answer = 1. Probably.
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 1:16 pm  I don't use Ozone. Don't have anything against it personally, but I own T-Racks, and have learned my way around it fairly good. It will do everything that Ozone will do. The Waves is a different beast altogether...... I have spent some time (not near enough yet) playing around and I DO dig the MaxxBass! Good Luck Voodoo _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
sk Location: USA Posts: 356	Posted - Thu Sep 26, 2002 6:48 am  VoodooRadio wrote: Hi Tomcat, Craig is right on about T-Racks being a separate program. I personally don't have a problem with opening and closing files. Let me just toss in my two cents on this one. I use and like using T-Racks, so that's where I'm coming from with regard to that product. Having said that, I see one extremely huge plus to T-Racks, and one minor to moderate drawback. And interestingly enough, the two are actually related. Aside from the technicalilty of whatever logarithms it uses, T-Racks, by virture of the fact that it is a standalone product, operates outside both the familiarity and immediacy of the host program, like CEP2, as well as outside of the limitations. As a result, with T-Racks it is possible to go beyond 'real time previewing'; you are able to not only do immediate a/b comparisons, which other plug-ins and host programs accomodate, but you are also able to go to ANY PART OF A SONG, IMMEDIATELY, to check the effects of a proposed edit, BEFORE you save the file. Otherwise, it's like shooting in the dark, and I've ended up with a dozen different 'experiments' when using plug-ins that don't let me check every part of the song first. And it takes up a lot of room on my hard drive, very quickly. (Even though I have a 120 GB HD, if I'm working on a CD that has 20 songs, and each song ends up with 10 experimental versions, it adds up very quickly). The problem I have with plug-ins in host programs, even ones that provide real time effects previewing, is that they DO NOT allow the user to immediately choose which part of the song to play. You can select certain sections, one at a time, but you can't immediately move the cursor to another section. Consequently, depending on the song and what you're trying to do, sometimes one part sounds great, but another part did not benefit from the effect in the same way. With /in T-Racks, you can see how every section of the song responds to a change in EQ, Compression, Limiting, Stereo Expanding, etc IMMEDIATELY, and you can link all or none of the transformations that T-Racks offers together to hear their cumulative effect. After using different plug-ins, and T-Racks, on the same songs, I figured out that this somewhat subtle difference made a huge difference in the overall quality result over an entire song. And I really hate having to wait through an entire intro just to hear an effect a plug-in in a host program is going to have on a part of the song further on. The down side, obviously, is that time is lost leaving the host program to go open up T-Racks; T-Racks is not as practical if you only want to edit a small section of a song - you end up literally having to cut/paste out and back. Also, T-Racks has this funny little habit of adding tiny split seconds worth of time into any file you run through it, so the sizes don't always exactly match back up when you paste back in. Also, I use the 'real time' option in T-Racks because I got glitches using the faster mode. What that means is that if you have a 4:00 song, it's going to take exactly 4:00 to process in T-Racks, rather than seconds when using a plug-in. You really do have to have the song ready to roll when you use T-Racks. Also, you cannot really do anything on your computer while T-Racks is running in real time, because ANY input from your mouse or keyboard could cause glitches in the final file. If you're playing the file over your speakers while T-Racks is running, and you HEAR any sort of glitch while it's processing, that glitch WILL come out in the final product. So this is just some real world input/feedback from someone who has been using the program for a while now and likes it but also sees some limitations. But it's a good tool and a good addition in the audio editing arsenal. I also really like BBE's Sonic Maximizer, although it's easy to make a song too boomy or shrill if you get carried away with the initial 'openness/punchiness' it gives a dull, lifeless, rehacked mp3. More than a couple of times I've had to go back and cut way back on the treble/bass settings after feeling like my ears were going to bleed if I listened any longer! lol sk
Andrew Rose Location: United Kingdom Posts: 875	Posted - Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:45 am  Just had a look at the Izotope website - they'll be releasing Ozone 2 any day now... _________________ Andrew Rose www.pristineaudio.co.uk
kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Mon Jun 09, 2003 5:37 pm  Any new opinions, now that Ozone2 has been out for a while, on the Waves vs Ozone(2) vs T-RackS discussion? I'm interested mainly in MultiBand compressor-limiters and any comments concerning transparancy, color, and most gain reduction without artifacts. I have Ozone2, T-RackS, Timeworks compressorX, PSP, Voxengo, digitalfishphones type of comp/lim plugs. Thanks, kylen
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Mon Jun 09, 2003 8:31 pm  I now have Ozone (got it for X-Mas) and... (personally) I still prefer T-RackS. To each his/her own! _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Mon Jun 09, 2003 9:07 pm  Quote: I now have Ozone (got it for X-Mas) and... (personally) I still prefer T-RackS. To each his/her own! I was hoping you'd chime in here Mr. VoodooRadio, I was half-way expecting that from some of your other posts but wanted to make sure it was TRackS over Waves. Since TRackS is mostly a dynamics processor (with pre/post comp para-shelving EQ)I assume then you use it mostly for dynamics control?
Craig Jackman Location: Canada Posts: 909	Posted - Tue Jun 10, 2003 5:48 am  clothesburner wrote: [Oh, one more thing. With Ozone, it's so easy to go in and check for and correct phasing problems. There is a phase meter already in CEP, so it really doesn't matter between Waves and Ozone in this case. _________________ Craig Jackman Production Supervisor CHEZ/CKBY/CIOX/CJET/CIWW Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Tue Jun 10, 2003 1:03 pm  The E.Q. is probably what I use T-RackS the most for. Personally, I'm "old school" enough to think that a "great mix" won't require alot of additional mastering. The E.Q. is very subtle and (as I've said before) I'm comfortable using it. _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Tue Jun 10, 2003 4:01 pm  Quote: The E.Q. is probably what I use T-RackS the most for. Personally, I'm "old school" enough to think that a "great mix" won't require alot of additional mastering. Thanks Voodoo thats what I was wondering, it helps to understand your usage and approach.
AMSG Location: Sweden Posts: 594	Posted - Sat Jun 28, 2003 3:03 am  Hmmm, chiming in a bit late but what the heck!;) It just seems that I'm the only one here not having/totally liking waves. I tested a demo version of their gold bundle a while ago and I noticed that I started to go back to cep's own effects after a while. Ok, the C4 was one plug-in that I used alot then (and that I would use now too). But the rest, I don't know...I just thought that cep's own effects were good enough so I didn't feel the need to use waves's. And there were some plug-ins that I didn't even have to use at all. Like their maximizer for example (owning ozone), or that maxxbass. But hey, since all seem to praise waves, it must be me who's crazy! I don't think waves is bad! No, it IS good...but it just feels a bit unnecessary for that price. Well, according to me:)
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Sat Jun 28, 2003 6:53 am  Quote: it IS good...but it just feels a bit unnecessary for that price For alot of folks (myself included) it falls into the "you get what you pay for" catagory. Personally, I prefer the Waves reverbs. _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
AMSG Location: Sweden Posts: 594	Posted - Sat Jun 28, 2003 1:23 pm  Yes voodoo, I won't deny that! Their reverbs sound magnificent! And if I had the money now I would buy the bundle. Just to be able to get some different and good sounding options when it comes to compression and reverb. But...(hehe]:}) I do think that cep's full reverb isn't that bad either. It's not like the renaissance there when it comes to options. But I personally think synt's reverb sounds good actually. Better than some other ones I've tested.
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