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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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 Posted - Wed Apr 24, 2002 3:11 pm
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Did you know that Cool Edit Pro 2.0 now offers Group Waveform Normalize? This is not your standard 'peak' normalizer, but instead a process that uniformly matches the 'loudness' of files based on their RMS levels...
What's this used for? Well, many of you have talked about downloading MP3s, burning them to CD, and they're all different levels, forcing you to turn up the volume on some tracks, and turn it down on others...Perhaps you're making a compilation CD of your favorite tracks but the CDs are from all different eras (ie, early 80s with no remastering, late 90s with remastering and loudness maximizing)...again, same problem; some are too loud, some are too soft.
Or, maybe you've been mixing your new record and you've done it at different times, in different places, maybe on different gear...again, same problem....the apparent 'loudness' is not the same.
Well, with CEP2's Group Waveform Normalize, you now have the ability to analyze the loudness of your files, and in just a few steps, make all files the same 'apparent' level. No more dial-fiddling, no more guess work...Cool Edit does it all for you.
To begin, simply open a series of files and go to Edit>Group Waveform Normalize. You'll be prompted to 'Choose Your Files' from a list. Hold the Ctrl key and left-click to select all the files that you want to RMS normalize. Then, click over to the Analyze Loudness tab.
Click on 'Scan For Statistical Information'. Cool Edit will now gather the attributes of each file. For detailed info on each one of the data fields, click the HELP button.
Now, click on the Normalize Tab. Here's where you have some options. By default, CEP2 will select the first option which is Normalize to Average Level of Source Files. This option is preferable if you just want to make everything the same because you're dealing with a group of files whose levels are all over the place. This will generate a nice, average loudness which is suitable for most situations.
Now, if you choose the Normalize to a Level of... option, this is what you would use to make everything Loud, Louder and Loudest, regardless of their 'collective average'. note: most modern CDs have a max RMS between -12 and -5, depending on the style of music. Some can even go higher, but in general, I'd stick within the -10/-8 range...It's really all up to you. So, select this option, type in a figure and you're good to go.
You'll also notice that there's a little information field to tell you that normalizing to a specific decibel value would cause clipping. Not to worry, as here's where you can implement the Hard Limiter to prevent digital clipping and keep those files loud. By default it's already selected. If you're familiar with setting the Hard Limiter, you can also alter the Look-Ahead and Release times. Click on Run Normalize and it's done.
Now, go ahead and save the changes to your files(if you're happy with the results). If you'd like, you can also run this process *before* burning to CD (with the optional Beta CD Burning PlugIn, free for CEP2 users) so it's one step just before you burn. No guess work, no worries, but definitely, uniformly loud!
---Syntrillium, M.D.
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Quent
Posts: 17
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Posted - Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:01 pm
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You mention RMS level and loudness as if they were equivalent. Fletcher and Munson would disagree.
Is the normalization RMS or true loudness which takes into account the change in human ear's frequency response sensitvity wrt level?
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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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Posted - Wed Apr 24, 2002 5:04 pm
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You actually have the option of both...either true RMS or what we call 'Equal Loudness Contouring'
---Syntrillium, M.D.
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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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Posted - Wed May 01, 2002 2:30 pm
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Hello. Unfortunately, CE2K does not have the RMS normalize (group waveform normalize) function. You can manually perform an RMS normalize, but it's not for the weak!
If you search the archives you'll probably be able to find the thread from long ago that dealt with a manual way to RMS Normalize.
If you simply want to make everything louder in a quick and easy step, you can try using the Hard Limiter (part of the Tweakin' Toys plugin for CE2K).
---Syntrillium, M.D.
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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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Posted - Thu May 02, 2002 3:59 pm
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Hello. I can't say that I'm familiar with MP3 workshop. Most normalize processes are Peak, not RMS - but either way, if you're clipping, you're either normalizing to an RMS that is TOO HIGH for the average material, OR you're normalizing above 100% (if it's a peak normalizer).
Frankly, I'd just use CE2K to import the MP3 files anyway. Did you take a look at the hard limiter? The benefit of using this is that you set an absolute maximum (ie, -0.1dB) so that your files will not clip.
---Syntrillium, M.D.
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amberdevo
Posts: 8
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:02 am
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I be confused. Used group normalize in CEP to average of all files. Burned to CD, listened on stereo and the quietest song "Yes - Wonderous stories" remained the quietest. I then checked the RMS level in Goldwave, then Audiograbber and the song had an RMS level only half that of the loudest song. The song also wasn't normalized to 0DB. In other words, the song got quieter after Group Normalize and was about 3/4 of the original volume. Equal Loudness Contour was checked when CD was burned. The loudest song also remianed the loudest and sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Nightrous
Posts: 26
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:40 am
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Yep. Well, say you're compiling a CD that contains different styles of music like dance, r&b and alternative. Wouldn't it sound weird if you used group normalise on all these since r&b isn't really supposed to sound as powerful as dance music.
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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:02 am
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| Wouldn't it sound weird if you used group normalise on all these since r&b isn't really supposed to sound as powerful as dance music. |
Well, I think 'the point' of this statement is pretty valid (though I don't necessarily agree re: the 'power' of Dance vs. R&B!). RMS Normalizing un-like music will potentially yield strange results. And remember, if you're taking a bunch of classical tracks and Group RMS normalizing with a bunch of Latin Pop Music tracks, it's not going to sound 'uniform'...Why? Because chances are that the classical piece is much more dynamic, and those differences in dynamic range will make all the difference when calculating the RMS of everything - especially if you don't use any (or very little) limiting.
---Syntrillium, M.D.
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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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JoyfulNois
Posts: 71
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:50 am
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I too, like amberdevo, have experienced a "reverse" affect when using Equal loudness contour. It actually lowered the volume of the quietest song and blew the loudest one all the way up to 0db.
I like the feature, but I use it without the Equal Loudness Contour because it has not yeilded good results for me.
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beetle
Location: USA
Posts: 2591
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:28 pm
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I have been raving about this feature since 2.0 came out! It can be cumbersome to use if you want to use one track as a guideline fot RMS normalizing all of the files to the same volume. I'm surprised more members don't mentiobn it.
One piece of advice: Keep the loudness contour box checked!
I just wish there was a way to peak level inside this function. I don't like to normalize peaks to 100%.
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beetle
Location: USA
Posts: 2591
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:30 pm
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| Quote: |
| Yep. Well, say you're compiling a CD that contains different styles of music like dance, r&b and alternative. Wouldn't it sound weird if you used group normalise on all these since r&b isn't really supposed to sound as powerful as dance music. |
Who says? If you are making a comp, it doesn't matter quite as much.
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beetle
Location: USA
Posts: 2591
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:31 pm
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I be confused. Used group normalize in CEP to average of all files. Burned to CD, listened on stereo and the quietest song "Yes - Wonderous stories" remained the quietest. I then checked the RMS level in Goldwave, then Audiograbber and the song had an RMS level only half that of the loudest song. The song also wasn't normalized to 0DB. In other words, the song got quieter after Group Normalize and was about 3/4 of the original volume. Equal Loudness Contour was checked when CD was burned. The loudest song also remianed the loudest and sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Did you save the changed files first?
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beetle
Location: USA
Posts: 2591
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:35 pm
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BTW, guys, once in a while you will get one of those files with a wide dynamic range or lots of treble. You may still have to smooth out the treble by EQ or compression.
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beetle
Location: USA
Posts: 2591
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:42 pm
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I don't know how you have the attack and release set, but I usually use 8-12 for the attack, and 80 for the release.
Edited by - beetle on 09/04/2002 3:00:46 PM
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groucho
Posts: 334
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 2:57 pm
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>If you search the archives you'll probably be able to find the thread from long ago that >dealt with a manual way to RMS Normalize.
Hey Synt (or anyone else):
Could you possibly post a link to this post? I remember reading it, but for the life of me I can't find it in the archives. I've only had 5 cups of coffee so far today, so probably the spark plugs in my brain aren't firing or something, but I just can't dig up that dang post.
I posted something on this awhile back & didn't get much response, but I'm still struggling with how to make files of wildly different genre, origin, dynamic range, etc. relatively the same volume. The GWN function just hasn't done it for me, and at this point I've gotten pretty good at just doing it manually, by ear. But I'm still looking for other options.
thanks,
Chris
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AndyH
Posts: 1425
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groucho
Posts: 334
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 4:13 pm
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This looks like it might be good for folks less fussy than me, but I don't think I want to introduce compression to the equation. This is my basic problem with every "automatic" solution I've tried so far: it messes with the songs themselves too much.
When I go through manually and tweak the songs to get them all the same pervieved loudness, I'm generally only boosting or cutting the amplification of any given song by 2 or 3 db at the most. No limiting or compressing, normalizing, etc.
It would be neat if there was some way to do this automatically, with a batch of files, but so far it appears there isn't. And the last thing I want to do is alter the dynamic range of any of the songs.
Chris
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amberdevo
Posts: 8
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 6:24 pm
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| Quote: |
| Quote: |
I be confused. Used group normalize in CEP to average of all files. Burned to CD, listened on stereo and the quietest song "Yes - Wonderous stories" remained the quietest. I then checked the RMS level in Goldwave, then Audiograbber and the song had an RMS level only half that of the loudest song. The song also wasn't normalized to 0DB. In other words, the song got quieter after Group Normalize and was about 3/4 of the original volume. Equal Loudness Contour was checked when CD was burned. The loudest song also remianed the loudest and sticks out like a sore thumb.
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Did you save the changed files first?
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amberdevo
Posts: 8
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Posted - Wed Sep 04, 2002 6:32 pm
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Sorry everyone: I haven't guite figured out how to apply a quote to a reply. Anwyway, in response to Beetle "Yes I did save the files before burning". So I went back again, since I still had the originals on my hard drive, reset all files in Audiograbber to around 98db, used group normalize again and still the same results. If I then use Audiograbber to set peak of the low song back again, it's almost the same level as some of the other songs. But the loudest song is still way out there in left field (way to loud compared to most of the others.)
Unless I can figure out what gives, I guess I'll have to use Audiograbber and set the files to a constant average.
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Johncan
Posts: 47
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Posted - Sun Sep 29, 2002 3:41 pm
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I have a dumb question related to Group Waveform Normalize. On one of the recordings that I am working on, the peak amplitudes are different on the right channel versus the left channel. The wave form on the left channel is much larger visually than the right channel. I did not record the show, I inherited it this way on CD. Otherwise I would just rerecord from the source.
I have cut and pasted the waveform statistics below.
Left Right
Min Sample Value: -26603 -18798
Max Sample Value: 30158 24699
Peak Amplitude: -.76 dB -2.61 dB
Possibly Clipped: 0 0
DC Offset: 362 1.288
Minimum RMS Power: -49.06 dB -48.86 dB
Maximum RMS Power: -7.19 dB -10.34 dB
Average RMS Power: -15.5 dB -16.35 dB
Total RMS Power: -14.9 dB -15.68 dB
Actual Bit Depth: 16 Bits 16 Bits
My questions is... before I run Group Waveform Normalization on the 27 files, how do I make the channel waveforms of each file more equal in amplitude? I was thinking about normalizing the right channel to -.76 db which would match the left channel. Is this the right thing to do?
Thanks in advance.
Johncan
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Syntrillium M.D.
Location: USA
Posts: 5124
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Posted - Mon Sep 30, 2002 8:31 am
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Hello John. First and foremost, you should convert this file to 32-bit before performing any processing.
Now, as far as the peak amplitudes are concerned...You 'could' normalize the right channel to match the left, but you may introduce an inbalance in the stereo imaging and/or destroy the in-phase content. Does the recording sound reasonably balanced? If so, I would leave it alone. The fact is, your 'Average RMS' values are within 1.5dB of each other (not a huge difference) and then peaks themselves are within a few dB. This is not real uncommon for a pre-mastered mix and it can be remedied.
The info that concerns me are the DC stats that you listed. This could very well be part of your problem. I've got to believe that you left out a decimal point for the left-channel DC stats - but either way, you might start by setting the DC to 'zero' and take it from there...
---Syntrillium, M.D.
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Johncan
Posts: 47
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Posted - Mon Sep 30, 2002 3:17 pm
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--- Synt,
The DC Offset was a typo on my part. The left channel is .362.
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| Does the recording sound reasonably balanced? |
No, it is slightly louder.
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| you should convert this file to 32-bit before performing any processing |
It is converted to 32 bit, but the stats show it as 16 bit. The tray at the bottom shows "44100 - 32 bit - Stereo". I wonder why that is?
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| The fact is, your 'Average RMS' values are within 1.5dB of each other (not a huge difference) and then peaks themselves are within a few dB. This is not real uncommon for a pre-mastered mix and it can be remedied |
What is the best way to remedy it? Was I going in the right direction?
Thanks!
Johncan
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:06 pm
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| groucho wrote: |
>If you search the archives you'll probably be able to find the thread from long ago that >dealt with a manual way to RMS Normalize.
Hey Synt (or anyone else):
Could you possibly post a link to this post? I remember reading it, but for the life of me I can't find it in the archives. |
I couldn't find it either, so here we go again....
Instructions follows:
This manuscript lists the steps you have to go in Cool Edit Pro if you want to build a compilation of wavefiles.
The volumes of the wavefiles will be tuned in an average manner to give the listener a harmonic and easy listening feeling overall the compiled wavefiles.
Before you begin, make sure that you have your wavefiles ready mixed in final version
(16-bit or 32-bit, just a format, which can be invoked into Multitrack Mixer View).
These files will not be altered by the procedure.
1.
Begin in Multitrack Mixer View.
If you are in Single Waveform View then switch to Multitrack Mixer View (F12).
2.
Open menu "Edit/Snapping".
Select "Snap to Waves" only.
3.
Open menu "File/Open Waveform" (Ctrl-O).
Dialog "Open a Waveform" comes up.
Select all the wavefiles which you want to compile.
Click or push the button "Open" to open them all.
4.
Open menu "Insert/Waveforms List..." (F9).
Place the dialog window anywhere at the right edge of the screen.
Select the first filename with a left click.
Hold down the left mouse button and drag the filename out of the dialog window.
Place this first wave snippet to the very beginning of track 1.
5.
Select the second filename with a left click.
Drag the second filename resp. wave snippet to track 2 near the end of the first wave snippet.
Left adjust the start position of the second wave snippet with right click dragging to the end position of the first wave snippet.
There comes up a helping snapline to do the exact aligning automagically for you.
6.
Repeat step 5 until you have dragged all of your titles into isolated tracks.
If the view is getting to small then click the button "Zoom Out Full".
At end of your drag work the Multitrack Mixer View will show you a nice staircase down from the upper left to the lower right edge of the multitrack mixer view.
Save this session file. As it is the first saving, give it a wonderful name.
7.
Click double on the first wave snippet in track 1 or right click on it and select "Edit Waveform" from the contextmenu.
Single Waveform View will come up, displaying the first wavefile in entire view.
Open menu "Analyze/Statistics...".
Waveform Statistics starts immediately.
Make sure that there is value=0 in editfield "Window Width".
If there is yet another value, then cancel the gathering process.
Go to editfield "Window Width" and fill in value 0.
Restart the gathering process with the button "Recalculate RMS".
If gathering process has stopped, take a look at the line "Average RMS Power".
There will be displayed the values for left and right channel in units minus dB.
Right click with your mouse into the field onto the digits with the _lower_ db value
(that is the greater absolute value) (value=max(abs(left),abs(right))
From the contextmenu select "Copy".
Close the dialog "Waveform Statistics".
Switch to Multitrack Mixer View.
Right click into the little Volume editfield at the left side of the track 1.
The dialog "Volumefader" opens, editfield "dB" will be highlighted.
Right click into the editfield "dB".
From the contextmenu select "Paste".
Delete the minus sign (that's important).
Press "OK" to close the volume fader.
8.
Repeat step 7 until you have gathered all the minimum Average RMS Power values and copied them into the allocated tracks's volume control editfields.
All values must be positiv (greater or equal zero).
9.
Find out, which value is the greatest.
(value=max(trackvol1, trackvol2, ..., trackvoln))
Right click into the editfield with the greatest value.
(that should be a volume fader editfield)
From contextmenu select "Copy".
Right click into the "Master" editfield.
The dialog "Main Volume Fader" opens, editfield "dB" will be highlighted.
Right click into the editfield "dB".
From the contextmenu select "Paste".
Put a minus sign in front of the value (that's important).
Save this session file.
10.
Now you have to set some cue points.
The first cue point must set to the hard left
(click on the button "Go To Beginning or Previous Cue"),
press F8 or use the right click contextmenu.
The next cue point must set at the end of the first snippet
(click near the end, exact snapping will be done automagically), press F8.
Repeat this setting of cue points until you have set all needed cue points (e.g. 9 cuepoints for 8 snippets)
Save this session file.
11.
Make sure that in "Options/Settings" (F4),
on tab "Multitrack",
in editfield "Mixdowns" the entry "16-bit" is selected (CD-quality).
Make sure that in Single Waform View,
menu "Edit/Convert Sample Type" (F11),
the appropriate values are set
(stereo, 16-bit, maybe dithering enabled)
(that's important because Mixdown will "auto-dither" to 16-bit,
using the selections from the dialog "Convert Sample Type")
12.
Back in Multitrack Mixer View.
Open menu "Edit/Mixdown/All Waves".
(now you have some time to wait, depending on your hardware power,
don't smoke, better drink a cup of tea ...)
13.
When Mixdown is done, the compiled wave is displayed in Single Waveform View.
You can easily see the averaged tuned shapes of the wave snippets.
Open menu "View/Cue List".
Highlight all the cue point entries and "Merge" them.
If button "Batch" is greyed then highlight the displayed cue ranges again.
Use button "Batch".
Save the wavefiles as Windows PCM *.wav file using a numbered template into any folder.
The compiled wavefiles are now ready to burn.
14. Close window "Cue List"
Discard the MixDown file.
Save the session file for later use.
Close the session.
15. End of RMS Averagesizing.
Burn!
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groucho
Posts: 334
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Posted - Thu Oct 03, 2002 5:54 pm
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Hey, and I was starting to think no one would respond to that query...:)
Thanks much, Graeme. Although I must quibble with #12 a bit. A quick glance through your post tells me this is likely to be a 4 or 5-cigarette operation...
Chris
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post78
Location: USA
Posts: 2887
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Posted - Thu Oct 03, 2002 6:00 pm
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Yeah, that "don't smoke" thing could be a problem for me too... ;-)
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Answer = 1. Probably.
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Thu Oct 03, 2002 6:16 pm
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I didn't write the original - as a smoker myself, I wouldn't follow step 12 to the letter either 
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Goat-TONGUE
Location: USA
Posts: 6
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Posted - Thu Oct 03, 2002 7:47 pm
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I'm so glad there is a thread on this topic!
(bare with me please)
Here is my problem:
My friend keeps saying that the "volume" levels in our songs are NOT loud and in-your-face enough. A good example would be playing one of our CD's in different CD players. Each time we put it in, we notice the VOLUME of the stereo(s) has to be raised up just to hear the music comfortably. So when switching CD's or changing it back to FM or AM it is much louder when compared. It has great sound but the songs as a whole...are weak.
Trying to fix this problem is literally driving me out of my mind. We use Cool Edit Pro 2.0. The wav files are all showing good levels. No big spikes. None are super tiny or anything like that. The volume for each channel has be tweaked so that when playing the song back the VU meter stays in the ORANGE area and NEVER shows the clipping lights go in the RED zone. (Which, I assume, is the right way to be) Doing this tedious task....I have discovered that I often need to LOWER the volume one one channel..just to be able to RAISE another. Almost like I have to compensate otherwise the horrible red CLIP lights go off. These are the sorts of settings we HAVE been using. (fullest volume - without clipping) When played back though, it's obvious the levels need to be louder overall.
I have tried to NORMALIZE some and all of the wavs that make up the song. I have even read these posts and tried the Group Normalize stuff. Either i'm doing something seriously wrong, or our tracks are as loud as they can be before it clips on kick-drum hits...or sub bass notes for example. (vocals seem to be the worst for setting it off) I have little or no knowledge of working with Decible stuff. Lots of these acronyms flying around here are going right over my head.
It seems when I play around with the Group Normalize / Hard Limiter stuff...I end up with a mixdown that sounds like it's being played through a stereo with bLoWn OuT speakers. The sound levels seem to just become mangled. My "newbie" attempt to fix our problem was to RAISE and LOWER the volumes of each channel (in the multi-track view) until it sounded louder to my ears and had minimal clipping. Then I just did a Mixdown and NORMALIZED the entire wav to 90%. Which seemed to give the wav file a haircut...a quick shave off the top and bottom. I'm going insane because I know this MUST be the wrong approach to a problem that seems so simple.
If you think you might help me more, don't be worried about talking to me like I am slow or stupid. I really am slow and stupid when it comes to this situation. If all the help I need has already been posted and I just need to go buy some books or take a class and learn.....then tell me. Right now it feels like we've created some great music, recorded at crystal clear levels...but refuses to become full and loud without sounding like butt.
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groucho
Posts: 334
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Posted - Thu Oct 03, 2002 8:25 pm
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| Goat-TONGUE wrote: |
I'm so glad there is a thread on this topic!
(bare with me please) |
(taking off my left shoe...)
I'm sure you'll get other advice GT, but I thought I'd throw this out for what it's worth:
First of all, I'd say, when adjusting the volumes of individual tracks in the mulitrack view, use your EARS, not the meters. I tend to try and get everything sounding good, while keeping things overall as relatively close to zero as possible. You should be raising or lowering track volumes on the basis of how it all SOUNDS, not with an eye on the meter. Unless I've accidentally recorded something badly, I never have to worry about clipping when doing it this way. Also, of course, make sure you're working in 32 bit.
After you've mixed down and done whatever else you're going to do to the final mix, then compression and hard limiting are the key to achieving the desired volume. Lots of people seem to have volume issues, but after mixdown (and a run through Ozone maybe) my mixes tend to just require a few dbs of boost with the Hard Limiter and maybe some compression, used sparingly. If you want that squashed, blaring sound of modern rock, the compressor is what you need to work with.
But if your stuff is considerably low in volume, I'd guess that the problem was either in tracking, or worrying too much about the meters during the mixing process. Good luck.
2centsly,
C
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Goat-TONGUE
Location: USA
Posts: 6
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Posted - Sat Oct 05, 2002 7:18 pm
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[/quote]
After you've mixed down and done whatever else you're going to do to the final mix, then compression and hard limiting are the key to achieving the desired volume. Lots of people seem to have volume issues, but after mixdown (and a run through Ozone maybe) my mixes tend to just require a few dbs of boost with the Hard Limiter and maybe some compression, used sparingly. [/quote]
Wow!  IT WORKS! My first test worked! It's lots louder and there is NO clipping! I'm soooo happy! Thank you for actually taking a moment to make that post. You helped us out totally! I'm learning so much about CEP the more I use it. I'm especially thankful for this FORUM! I should have surfed over to here MONTHS ago!!!
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Graeme
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Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sat Oct 05, 2002 11:55 pm
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| Goat-TONGUE wrote: |
| Wow! IT WORKS! My first test worked! It's lots louder and there is NO clipping! |
Obviously, we're happy that you're happy.
I think that you misunderstood the reasoning behind this particular thread though. The purpose of the 'Group Waveform Normalise' process (and the manual version of the same thing which I published) is to make the apparent loudness of each track of a compilation the same. This ensures that you are not continously jumping up and down to adjust the volume as you play through the whole thing.
This is not what you wanted to acheive - you just wanted to make your recorded tracks as 'loud' as commercial recordings. This is achieved through compression and limiting (as you have now discovered) but it does mean the dynamic range of the original material is altered.
For commercial reasons, there seems to be an unholy race between all the parties concerned to make their particular record 'louder' than the competitions. To my mind, this is to the detriment of the music, but that's another argument entirely.
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Goat-TONGUE
Location: USA
Posts: 6
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Posted - Sun Oct 06, 2002 4:52 pm
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| Graeme wrote: |
| Goat-TONGUE wrote: |
| Wow! IT WORKS! My first test worked! It's lots louder and there is NO clipping! |
Obviously, we're happy that you're happy.
I think that you misunderstood the reasoning behind this particular thread though. The purpose of the 'Group Waveform Normalise' process (and the manual version of the same thing which I published) is to make the apparent loudness of each track of a compilation the same. This ensures that you are not continously jumping up and down to adjust the volume as you play through the whole thing.
This is not what you wanted to acheive - you just wanted to make your recorded tracks as 'loud' as commercial recordings. This is achieved through compression and limiting (as you have now discovered) but it does mean the dynamic range of the original material is altered.
For commercial reasons, there seems to be an unholy race between all the parties concerned to make their particular record 'louder' than the competitions. To my mind, this is to the detriment of the music, but that's another argument entirely.
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You are totally right! Now I see that my question was off-topic. I look at it this way....not only was I able fix our "volume" problem (with help of course) but I also learned how to use the Group Normalize feature! I was taking the wrong approach for awhile there but I know that what i've learned will come in handy down the road! Now I understand the difference between the two procedures. It all makes perfect sense!
Cheers!
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kylen
Posts: 290
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Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 11:14 am
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| Quote: |
7.
Click double on the first wave snippet in track 1 or right click on it and select "Edit Waveform" from the contextmenu.
Single Waveform View will come up, displaying the first wavefile in entire view.
Open menu "Analyze/Statistics...".
Waveform Statistics starts immediately.
Make sure that there is value=0 in editfield "Window Width".
If there is yet another value, then cancel the gathering process.
Go to editfield "Window Width" and fill in value 0.
Restart the gathering process with the button "Recalculate RMS". |
Hi Graeme,
I've missed one of the concepts for the stats setting on step 7. Why do we close the window width to 0 ms ? I would think that the window opening at the default 50 ms would allow the entire 20Hz-22.5KHz spectrum thru. If it's closed to 0 ms what gets into the window ?
You mentioned these weren't your instructions but I thought I'd ask if you knew before I get too far down this rabbit-hole!:)
Thanks,
kylen
ed. Here's the original link I ran across:
'normalizing'
Here's another here complete with the author's name (Detlev Dalitz) and debate including other methods...
'Normalizing'
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:43 pm
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Oddly enough (and you've probably seen it by now) someone else asked exactly the same question. I can't improve on SteveG's answer, so I'll just refer you to the thread - 'Average RMS Window Width'
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kylen
Posts: 290
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Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 1:54 pm
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OK, thanks Graeme. Yes I saw it and am including it in my view of the universe as it stands today!
kylen
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LOUDNESS to all (tracks, that is)
