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alva
Posts: 4
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 Posted - Wed Feb 20, 2002 7:09 pm
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Has anyone yet tried the new Creative Labs external USB card with CEPro? Does it do 24 bit 96kHz recording as promised?
ALva
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Thu Feb 21, 2002 2:50 pm
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I asked a similar question about this USB adapter almost the day it was released - is it what it claims to be? Everybody seems to think not, on the basis not of seeing it, but Creative being so 'creative' with the truth about the abilities of their rather mediocre products.
So even if they produced the best USB module, soundcard, whatever, in the world ever, they would now virtually have to give them away before anybody doing serious audio would ever dream of giving them houseroom. They have a serious credibility problem. And after all the things we've said here, I'm not at all surprised that nobody's going to admit to trying one, even if they have!
But I would actually like to know the answer, and I promise not to laugh too much if it's another sheep in wolves' clothing...
Steve
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austin
Posts: 17
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Posted - Thu Feb 21, 2002 3:49 pm
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On Feb 11th I sent this message to Creative via
the "Contact Us" link at the Extigy page:
(Quote)
Hello,
Your Extigy page states that the unit has
"24-bit / 96kHz Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC) for various analog inputs."
May I assume that this applies to the Line In ports?
Does this mean I can create true 24/96 stereo .wav
files on my hdd, using the Extigy?
I have read several conflicting opinions about what
it is possible to do with USB, and would like some
clarification on this.
Thank you,
(End Quote)
No response yet.
Will inform.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Fri Feb 22, 2002 7:57 am
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| ...No response yet. |
This has a depressingly familiar ring to it...
I haven't seen any independent reviews, never mind any I'd actually trust. Where are they all?
Steve
Edited by - SteveG on 02/22/2002 07:57:44 AM
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ajfaull
Posts: 50
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Posted - Sat Feb 23, 2002 12:52 am
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On Creative's Extigy newsgroup the talk is that it still only records at 16/48.
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You can't lead a calvary charge if you think you look funny on a horse.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Sat Feb 23, 2002 3:29 am
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If this is true, doesn't that make Creative Labs blatant liars?
As in:
High Signal-to-Noise Ratio (SNR) exceeding 100dB using high linearity, low distortion 24-bit converters with resolutions of up to 96kHz
24-bit / 96kHz Analog-to-Digital Converter (ADC) for various analog inputs
24-bit / 96kHz Digital-to-Analog Converter (DAC) for 6-channel analog speaker and headphone output
Independent 24-bit Analog-to-Digital Converters for Line and Microphone input controls to provide recording and mixing flexibility
Supports Sony/Philips Digital Interface (SPDIF) format input signal of up to 24-bit / 96kHz quality[/list:9d3c1176e3]
(Taken straight from the Extigy spec.)
Steve
Edited by - SteveG on 02/23/2002 03:33:08 AM
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austin
Posts: 17
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Posted - Sun Mar 10, 2002 6:20 pm
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Today I downloaded the Extigy user manual .pdf and this is all I could find about recording quality:
On p. 42, Content Creation/Recording digital audio
"You can do digital recording and editing (16-bit, 48 kHz) on your computer with Sound Blaster Extigy using CreativeWave Studio. Connect any SPDIF compatible device such as a DAT deck and select SPDIF In in Creative Audio Mixer."
And on p. 36, Creative WaveStudio
"Play, edit, and record 8-bit (tape quality) and 16-bit (CD quality) wave data"
At this point, it seems to be pretty generic Sound Blaster. (This would be a step up from the built-in ESS Solo-1 in my laptop, however, which has a nasty whine to it.)
Edited by - austin on 03/10/2002 6:23:33 PM
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Sun Mar 10, 2002 7:53 pm
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So what the hell is going on with this box???
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zoomr
Posts: 3
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Posted - Sun Mar 10, 2002 10:24 pm
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I wish someone could clarify this. In January Creative specified clearly that the Extigy was their only sound card with 24 bit record capability, but now their specifications have become more fuzzy. I went to another site for a second opinion:
http://uk.europe.creative.com/estore/product.asp?prod=301
Where it says:
24-bit/96kHz compatible connectivity and exceptional 100dB signal to noise ratio.
I have asked on usenet and the responses there have been unclear as well. One reply stated that 24 bit recording with the Extigy was not possible for this reason:
"The whole audio driver layer of WDM 1.1 is (at least still now, without patches) limited to 16bit, for both rec and play. Therefore if you use NT5 (2K or XP) for MME or DirectSound recording (e.g. CoolEdit and Soudforge use MME) (in contrary to ASIO (Cubase, etc.) or KernelStreaming (Sonar)) you cannot get 24bits. Furthermore I heard that MME and DirectSound recording of the Audigy is limited to 16bits even with VxD (Win4 aka 9x/ME) drivers, except for the ASIO part."
Does that make any sense??
I really do not want to spend that kind of money and wind up with the same 16 bit record that I already have. Any help would be appreciated!
-Alan
| Quote: |
Today I downloaded the Extigy user manual .pdf and this is all I could find about recording quality:
On p. 42, Content Creation/Recording digital audio
"You can do digital recording and editing (16-bit, 48 kHz) on your computer with Sound Blaster Extigy using CreativeWave Studio. Connect any SPDIF compatible device such as a DAT deck and select SPDIF In in Creative Audio Mixer."
And on p. 36, Creative WaveStudio
"Play, edit, and record 8-bit (tape quality) and 16-bit (CD quality) wave data"
At this point, it seems to be pretty generic Sound Blaster. (This would be a step up from the built-in ESS Solo-1 in my laptop, however, which has a nasty whine to it.)
Edited by - austin on 03/10/2002 6:23:33 PM |
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Mon Mar 11, 2002 2:38 am
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| ...Does that make any sense?? |
As far as anybody who is not actually a developer can tell, yes. With Microshaft and Creative both being somewhat 'circumspect' about the WDM situation - in other words not spelling it out anywhere in black and white, it makes sense.
The state of play with WDM in general is such that I won't presently use it. And the same is true of WinXP. What I would like to know is whether the Extigy has any drivers that can enable it to meet its published specifications at all on any operating system with any drivers? For instance, is there a VxD driver that will let it run under Win98 or ME in 24-bit? VxD drivers are the only ones I've had any conspicuous success with as far as 24-bit recording goes...
If the Audigy is capable of doing this, why can't Creative just say that there are WDM driver limitations? What is it that's so difficult about telling a simple version of the truth??? All it requires is a table with each OS, and the different drivers available to run under it on one axis, and the available performance of the Extigy on the other. Creative could only possibly gain from doing this, as far as i can see...
Or am I being very naive?
Steve
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zoomr
Posts: 3
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Posted - Mon Mar 11, 2002 12:04 pm
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Creative has changed the specifications on the Extigy. I remember the original spec page that they had on their site in February. It was in this format (from an Audigy card), with a grid showing bit depth and sample rate:
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/audigyplatinumex/specs.asp
But now they have changed it to this vague format:
http://www.soundblaster.com/products/extigy/specs.asp
I am disappointed because I thought I had finally found a 24 bit sound card in my price range. I don't understand that if it has 24 bit A>D why they don't connect all the bits.
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cbs
Posts: 7
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Posted - Sat Mar 16, 2002 11:38 am
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hi new poster here and am i glad people are talking about this subject. I was hoping to transfer hours of cassette 4 track recordings (made on a yamaha MT50) to cool edit pro via the extigy and a usb port and was so excited at the possibilities of being able to edit and transfer tapes, vinyl and other audio to cd that i bought the extigy and a usb 2.0 PCI card and have been struggling ever since to achieve any of my objectives. First I had to order the 98SE update because the drivers i needed were not available for 98, then i had to reinstall the extigy and manually change all the hard drive systems to allow DMA despite the warning symbols on the windows, (was this a mistake?) and now i can send all manner of audio information to the "creative" interfaces such as wave studio, and audio player, creative mixer ect., ect....but altho the wave studio is a nifty piece of gear it is limited in effects and has only left and right channels for one track. I did some work on a fifteen minute wave file and got it sounding really good and then tried to transfer it to cd using nero and my recently installed creative cdrw and cannot get the signals to attatch. Also every now and then while using creative extigy programs/cool edit pro i get the dreaded fatal error freeze up on my computer saying "VxD followed by a series of numbers and have to Ctrl>Alt>Delete to begin resetting my computer up all over again!!!!! All of these problems are exacerbated by the "Creative" support system which has been creatively inssouciant and nonsupportive in my quest to make this solution work for my computer needs. I wish i would have known all the scorn and derisiveness that users have for these products but i made my decision impulsively and without proper research and really only have myself to blame. A computer wizard friend of mine is going to come over within the week to try and assist me in getting my system stable and running for my needs and i hope this works as i am severely restricted budget-wise and really want to put my editted/mastered music to cd as well as pull some of my vinyl (collectors editions and high quality audio) to sampler discs that i can play and share with friends. I will say in closing up that the transfer to (24/96 A/D to D/A and vice versa ) has worked well and the sound quality is primo , a vast improvement over the tape quality and almost a full saturated sound in my wave files, at least from what i can hear over my headphones. (my computer speakers have not worked since i installed the extigy) as i have not been able to transfer my files to cd to check the mix/quality audio in a stereo system. After all my problems so far and budgetary restrictions I'm sure as hell not thinking about adding a "creative" speaker system. Thank you all for reading this as i know it was longwinded and i invite anyone to respond with solutions/suggestions for me to Maincbs13 on aol. I am a virtual computer naif and am struggling to work thru these problems so any advice should be in simple terms/dirrections and I will keep this forum updated on any success or further problems encountered with the Extigy. Yours and truly struggling, cbs
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Wildduck
Posts: 466
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Posted - Sat Mar 16, 2002 4:59 pm
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CBS, Many questions spring to mind, but you really should give a bit more info. Make of motherboard (or maybe just computer type), amount of ram, processor etc. would all help for a start.
First question - if the computer speakers have stopped working, this implies the PC had another soundcard. Did it? Is it now completely disabled?
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sat Mar 16, 2002 8:03 pm
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| Quote: |
I will say in closing up that the transfer to (24/96 A/D to D/A and vice versa ) has worked well and the sound quality is primo , a vast improvement over the tape quality and almost a full saturated sound in my wave files, at least from what i can hear over my headphones. (my computer speakers have not worked since i installed the extigy) as i have not been able to transfer my files to cd to check the mix/quality audio in a stereo system. After all my problems so far and budgetary restrictions I'm sure as hell not thinking about adding a "creative" speaker system.
Yours and truly struggling, cbs |
I'm sorry you have had such a major problem with this card. I am the last person to recommend Creative products (any of them) to someone who wishes to do good audio work but, even so, you seem to have a particularly long list of woes and I suspect that they are not all attributable to the soundcard. However, since you have an expert 'on tap', it's probably best to let him get on with the job of sorting this side of things out. If you still in trouble after that, then another shout here would not go amiss.
However, I would like to comment on the section of your post quoted above, if only to stop you spending more money unwisely.
1 - You talk of monitoring using headphones. This is a subject which has received much attention in this forum and the general opinion is, don't do this. Particularly if you are making alterations to EQ or adding any sort of FX, since headphones will give you a very false image of what you really have.
2 - You imply that you will be adding a (or resurrecting your existing) 'computer speaker' system. Again, this had been the subject of many posts and, again, the concensus is, don't do it! These systems are not worth spending money on for good audio work.
3 - Since you appear to be someone who knows what he is listening for, it seems reasonable to assume you have a reasonable audio system already. I would suggest you hook the computer up to that.
As a new member, I suggest you have a good dig around the forum archive (use the 'search' button at the top of this page) as many of the questions you are likely to ask have been covered in some depth, at one time or another.
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cbs
Posts: 7
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Posted - Sun Mar 17, 2002 11:15 am
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I would like to send my thanks to all (especially Graeme and Wildduck) for responding to my post and I'm looking forward to searching the archives on this and related/future issues, did I mention that this a primo forum?!!
As far as my computer info goes.....
Authentic AMD
AMD-K6(tm)3D processor
64.0MB RAM (71% free)
Generic IDE Disk type 47
MITSUMI CD-ROM FX4010!B
CREATIVE CD-RW RW4224E
Win98SE
Buslink USB 2.0 PCI Card
and the dreaded Sound Blaster Extigy by "Creative"ly absent on support....lol
I know i need more memory and that is being installed next week and i've heard mention that i could do with a faster proccessor/another hard disk drive but i'm leery of beefing up this computer if my compatability issues don't straighten out.
I have a great old 60w per channel Kenwood Amplifier (tube amp) but was cautioned against running my computer sound through it for monitoring issues because of it's lack of a true flat sound (and it is inconveniently in the living room.) I've been thinking of buying a stereo amp and hooking up a spare pair of Infinty SL30 bookshelf loudspeakers up for monitoring purposes but when I had them hooked to my stereo last time they were slightly deficient in bass response and i would have to find another pair and a subwoofer if i was to get the advantage of the 5.1 capabilities that Extigy claims to be capable of mixing to.
I took the advice of one of the posters yesterday to look up a Creative 'user's forum' and was excited by the idea of finding answers to my questions and possible solutions to my running problems, but alas there is no user forum that i could find. I sent an e-mail message to the (on) crack Creative Support Center as to where i might find such a forum but it hasn't been answered yet. They might be shocked that someone is actually using the system successfully and might want to talk about it!!!lol
I read somewhere in this forum that a thirty day trial of CEP is available before actual purchase? am i missing something here on the main page? My music is kind of a cross between King Crimson and Tortise with a little NIN thrown in, only it's not quite as dark or violently viscereal as all that and the use of layers and extra overdubs is extremely important. I play a Ludwig Quadraplus drumset with Zildjian cymbals that is soon to be fully miked and sent thru a 20 channel analog mixer (sometimes thru an Aleissis Nanoverb) to my Yamaha MT50 four track. I also have an Epiphone Sheraton semi-hollow body electric guitar, an Epiphone acoustic/electric and a Sikma acoustic guitar. I run those thru an RP5 digitech effects processor and out to either a miked SUNN Beta Lead amp or straight to the recorder. I also have a Peavy Bass with active pickups and a Yamaha Keyboard that is midi capable that is in the shop, my son hooked up the wrong power adapter up to it and i hope to have it back soon. As you can see my whole system is almost set up for analog and this was my attempt at getting the equipment together to produce viable high quality digital. My mistake was thinking that i could buy the Extigy on the basis of looks and feel (like you would buy an instrument) and the sound would improve thru practice, practice, practice.
Hopefully after my computer wizard gets here, next friday or saturday, and some of my other issues are off the board as possible problems I can get to work mixing/painting my masterpiece. I am looking forward to using CEP if that is the right program for my uses and delving into the intricasies of multi-multi track recording in the digital forum and appreciate everyones kind nudgings. I have read home recording for dummies (just the last two days) and my next read is "Music Technology: a survivor's guide" by Paul White so my head is spinning in my quest to back up my performance/musical skills with the art of sound engineering and possibly complete my education on the subject sometime in my lower eighties ( i'm 44 now, so no hurry) Once again thanks for your directions and I'm looking forward to being a long time poster on this forum, (if I don't get kicked off the platform by someone insisting that i say what i have to say and shut up!! lol) and i promise to get less longwinded and more trouble free in the future. !! Yeah right, lol lol yours still struggling, cbs
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sun Mar 17, 2002 3:58 pm
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| Quote: |
| I've been thinking of buying a stereo amp and hooking up a spare pair of Infinty SL30 bookshelf loudspeakers up for monitoring purposes but when I had them hooked to my stereo last time they were slightly deficient in bass response and i would have to find another pair and a subwoofer if i was to get the advantage of the 5.1 capabilities that Extigy claims to be capable of mixing to. |
Leaving aside the 5.1 issue for the moment, the idea of a separate amp and speakers is an admirable one. You might think the Infinity's are a little bass light, but they're still streets ahead of any 'computer monitor' system you can buy.
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| I read somewhere in this forum that a thirty day trial of CEP is available before actual purchase? am i missing something here on the main page? |
Yes - there is a demo version. Click on 'Downloads' in the left hand column on this page and it's about 2/3 rds the way down the page.
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| As you can see my whole system is almost set up for analog and this was my attempt at getting the equipment together to produce viable high quality digital. My mistake was thinking that i could buy the Extigy on the basis of looks and feel (like you would buy an instrument) and the sound would improve thru practice, practice, practice. |
I don't see why you won't be able to get something to happen, even with the Extigy card. You do need to sort out (what I believe are) other problems on your computer first. Essentially, all that will happen in your setup is that you will be replacing the 4 track recorder with the computer. Otherwise things will be much the same as you are used to.
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| Hopefully after my computer wizard gets here, next friday or saturday, and some of my other issues are off the board as possible problems I can get to work mixing/painting my masterpiece. |
Yes - until you have the basic computer working properly, there is little point in persuing the rest of it.
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| I am looking forward to using CEP if that is the right program for my uses and delving into the intricasies of multi-multi track recording in the digital forum |
As I see it, at the moment ,the biggest difference will be that you will only have a '2 track' recorder, instead of the 4 track you are used to. This may or may not be a disadvantage, depending how you work. As long as you can confine yourself to laying no more than two tracks (or one stereo track) at a time, this should not really prove a problem. Of course, if you are in the habit of bouncing tracks (as I suspect you are) the advantages of digital recording will soon become very apparent.
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Creative Extigy USB+ Cool Edit Pro?