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AndyH · Posted - Mon Aug 13, 2001 4:04 pm

I am starting this as a new topic, rather than putting it into the one wherein the subject was first mentioned, to avoid having attention stray from my main interest there.

The discussion mentioned that LPs have a dynamic range of around 60 dB. Also that they frequently did not exceed 40 dB. I would expect that restriction also applies to much pop music on CDs. My curiosity here, however, is about the possibilities (although these subjects may not fit very conveniently under CoolEdit sponsorship).

The last time I paid any attention was when CDs were first becoming widely popular — I would guess in the late ‘70's. I read some articles about advances in LP mastering and manufacturing that made them close to CDs in specs.

I don’t remember much, but the dynamic range could be increased to around 90 dB and the signal to noise ratio could be made abut the same as then current CDs. It was also said that many of the pops and clicks disappeared in this product because they were actually the result of manufacturing defects that could be avoided with the new technology. I remember mention of direct to metal mastering, but I am not sure if these advances were a development of that process, or if I just made the association post facto.

The articles lamented that such LPs might never be sold because some retooling was necessary, and CDs seemed to be driving LPs to extinction. My interest is: did such LPs ever appear in production?

Somewhat related, I remember reading that some company, RCA I think, developed a vinyl mix that eliminated static charges, and all their results, completely. They were supposed to make it available to any company that wanted to use it. Did that ever go into production? I don’t believe I ever got such an LP, if any exist.

beetle · Location: USA

The CD was introduced into the U.S. in 1982. Just before that time there was a compettitor to the very marginally popular dbx system for LP's called CX developed and used by CBS. The process was similar to dbx. The process afforded the decoded disc around 90+db. Several titles were pressed in 1982. I have one by Heatwave. The process was a bust because the cassette ruled supreme and the compact disc had just been launched in Japan and Europe.

AndyH · Posted - Mon Aug 13, 2001 10:56 pm

I am off by some years then. I think CDs were on sale at the time of those articles. I know there were articles about CDs in the magazines (I did not buy any CDs until about 1992, so I don't have any memories close to the beginnings).

The major improvement in LPs were not some equilization, compression, or other processing of the signal, but a change in the physical LP. I remember that the click/pop reduction was supposed to come from a newer process that reduced microscopic fault created as the castings, positives and negatives, were separated from wach other somewhere, or perhaps several somewheres, in those steps to the stamping master. Certain little jagged edges that made noise by interacting with the stylus in the playing of the LPs produced from the stamping master that contained there little faults.

For the rest of the improvements, my memory says they were also some means of improving the physical disk, but my memory has been know to be less than perfect.

beetle · Location: USA

I do recall that the early to mid-80's was a time when record companies experimented wnd marketed recordings made with various methods and materials. There were many things for vinyl and tape like:

QuiexII
Half-speed mastering
180-gram pressings
DMM (Direct Metal-Mastering)
CBS's infamous "Discomputer"
DBX
CX
Chrome cro2/High Bias real-time cassettes
Dolby "C"
Dolby "S"
"Digital" cassette tapes

But none of them beat the often maligned 16-bit 44.1K compact disc! I won't even get into that green ink and ****aki stones crap.

AndyH · Posted - Tue Aug 14, 2001 3:26 pm

Upon further thought, I realize that I have nothing but an old impression to go on for thinking that all of these supposed advantages came about through LP mastering/manufacturing changes. I am certain that the reduction (I recall it as a claimed virtual elimination) of impulse noise was due to a new process of making the disk master (and perhaps stamping the LPs from it), but the other improvements, the increase in dynamic range and signal to noise ratio, might have been the result of signal processing. I expect that seems more likely. Anyway, this is obviously nothing more than historical curiosity.

However, I can relate the reading to an approximate time. It was before 1980. If CDs were not being sold in the U.S., they were at least being discussed in various audio magazines. The tone of these LP articles was “isn’t it too bad that CDs had to come along just now and screw up the potential of these great advances in vinyl ever seeing the light of day”.

Hey, I hear that the specially treated rainbow foil from England really does wonders for the music if you put a snip of it on the CD label. Even better, it does as much if you put it on a door handle, instead. Also, their special cream is great when you rub it on an LP label, but not apparently as great as the foil on a CD. Maybe that is because of the CD’s greater dynamic range?

jonrose · Location: USA

Now, where DID I misplace my green marker...?

;-)

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Aug 15, 2001 12:26 pm