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Ted 2Fast
Location: Greece
Posts: 5
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 Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:08 am
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Hi everyone, I need your help, I 'm trying to make a News Bulletin for my radio station and I have a music track which is 1:30 mins long having a 10 second intro and a 3 second outro which gives me about 1:17 mins to play with including the breaks between the vocal segments (different news headers).
What I 'm trying to achieve is an automatic ducking of the music based on the Vocal in-outs. Since the news headers are going to be about 6 or 7 within that time frame, I 'm trying to have about 1.5 seconds of silence between the vocal segments, also the beginning vocal segment has to start right after the 10 sec intro and the last has to end right before the 3 sec outro. The way we do this in a Pro Tools based studio is we break the vocal track into the 6 or 7 segments and we place the first right after the the intro and the last before the outro and then we manualy move each segment accordingly, then we let a Sony console do the ducking and it works great! I want to be able to achieve this with Cool Edit Pro.
I read a previous post on an exact similar post by Younglove but I couldn't make it work on my friend's Cool Edit Pro 2.1!
Please show me the light!!!
Regards
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Peace,
Teddy '2Fast' |
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:26 am
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I have to say that it's not the easiest thing to do - we've tried it using the Envelope Follower facility in multitrack, but quite frankly, it's quicker and more effective to do it by hand by drawing volume envelopes on the tracks.
If the Dynamics Processing module is ever revisited, and sidechain access is provided, the internal envelope prcessing in there would probably enable a much better automated job to be done. As it is, it's possible (after a fashion), but time-consuming.
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Ted 2Fast
Location: Greece
Posts: 5
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:08 am
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Hmmmm...I tried the by hand method and its pretty difficult and time consuming and the results were not so good, peaking right away and ducking instantly etc... it wasnt that smooth, is there a better or easier way to do it by hand cause I m a newbie to the Cool Edit Pro and maybe I was doing it the wrong way?!
Thanx for the prompt reply anyway...
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Peace,
Teddy '2Fast' |
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pwhodges
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 23
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:23 am
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<Competitor alert!> - This is something Wavelab does nicely enough.
Paul
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Ted 2Fast
Location: Greece
Posts: 5
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 10:02 am
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Which Wavelab?
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Peace,
Teddy '2Fast' |
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pwhodges
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 23
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:27 pm
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How many are there?? I've got Steinberg's Wavelab 4, and it can duck a track either according to the signal from an adjacent track (using a supplied plug-in), or simply according to the presence of a clip on it (built-in feature of the Montage - their name for multitrack view) which has advantages if you want to duck a little ahead of the overdub.
Paul
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:37 pm
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| pwhodges wrote: |
How many are there?? I've got Steinberg's Wavelab 4, and it can duck a track either according to the signal from an adjacent track (using a supplied plug-in), or simply according to the presence of a clip on it (built-in feature of the Montage - their name for multitrack view) which has advantages if you want to duck a little ahead of the overdub.
Paul |
There are several, as a Google search will instantly reveal! But this is of course the $599 Wavelab 4 we are talking about... which still doesn't do as much overall as CEP2.1, although it does do a few things like this a little better, admittedly. But it really isn't that difficult to get a good result by dragging the envelopes about - what exactly were you doing that made it so difficult?
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kylen
Posts: 290
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 2:53 pm
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| What I 'm trying to achieve is an automatic ducking of the music based on the Vocal in-outs. |
You could try this guy (DX plugin) that Graeme might recommend also:
http://www.db-audioware.com/dbd.htm
The unique side chain feature (which requires a multi track application like Cubase or Cakewalk) lets you perform tricks like ducking and synchronized gating, normally only possible with external hardware.
They have broadcaster stuff too...hmm I wonder if their AGC uses rms detection...:)
kylen
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:05 pm
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| kylen wrote: |
| Quote: |
| What I 'm trying to achieve is an automatic ducking of the music based on the Vocal in-outs. |
You could try this guy (DX plugin) that Graeme might recommend also:
http://www.db-audioware.com/dbd.htm
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Yup - works a treat for this sort of thing.
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SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:40 pm
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Yes, that's a bit more like it. Sort-of affordable, really...
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pwhodges
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 23
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Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 4:00 pm
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| SteveG wrote: |
| There are several, as a Google search will instantly reveal! |
Yes, but the only ones other than Steinberg, in the first couple of pages at least, are a Matlab addon and an astronomy site - hardly cause for confusion.
Unfortunately, this facility appears not to be in the cheaper Wavelab Essentials.
Paul
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Ted 2Fast
Location: Greece
Posts: 5
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Posted - Sat Jul 12, 2003 1:12 am
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This plugin really sounds great, but, after visiting the site and reading the info on it it says :
sidechain (send & receive)
Note this feature requires a multitrack host application (such as Cubase, Cakewalk or Logic Audio)
Will it work with CEP 2.1?
In case I sound dumb its because I am to this!! Totally new and not sure how to work with it so please bear with me on this and help as much as you can guys!
Thanx
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Peace,
Teddy '2Fast' |
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sat Jul 12, 2003 2:53 am
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| Ted 2Fast wrote: |
Note this feature requires a multitrack host application (such as Cubase, Cakewalk or Logic Audio)[/i]
Will it work with CEP 2.1? |
Yes - no problem. Exactly how to do just what you want is clearly explained in the little online manual which comes with it.
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Ted 2Fast
Location: Greece
Posts: 5
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Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 2:41 am
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Well, I read the little online manual and made it to work, not quite pleased with the end result though, its doing the ducking but for some reason the voice sounds a bit distorted or trembling or something... I fiddled with the settings (Attack-decay etc) but couldn't make it to produce a better result.
Anyone can suggest correct ducking settings?
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Peace,
Teddy '2Fast' |
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kylen
Posts: 290
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Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:14 am
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| its doing the ducking but for some reason the voice sounds a bit distorted or trembling or something |
If, using the example in the manual, the voice is on channel 3 and is also the 'control signal' you want to use to duck channel 1/2 then start with it's compressor settings all the way off (raise the threshold to 0db and put the gain on the left to 0db - the default setting on mine is an 8db gain!). You also adjust the gain of channel 3 to your liking using the track slider in Cool Edit Pro.
In other words don't let the channel 3 compressor you use to send the duck signal process your voice (control signal) insert another instance of a compressor after that one if you need it.
The block diagram shows that it shouldn't be a problem should you choose to use the channel 3 compressor do both things (send control to track 1/2 and compress track 3) later when you're used to how things operate. :)
kylen
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Automatic Ducking