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kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Wed Jul 09, 2003 7:25 pm  Hi Folks, What kind of power conditioning do you use in your studio and also do you take it with you offsite? (really curious about this one) This is kind of a discussion thread to see what the latest state of your environment is. What kinds of things do you deem critical enough to use conditioned power on - eg: computer, tape deck, phono, preamps, etc. Also I've read that in Europe some of you folks have balanced power distruibuted to you. I mean that there is 60 volts ac on each leg of the 2-wire power, and of course the ground for the third wire if the power supply of your equipment needs it. Is that cool ? I use a Furman AC Line Voltage regulator (AR1215) and a Furman Balanced power isolation transformer (IT-1210) and connect the computer, power amp, spectrum analyzer/EQ, all incoming media transports and most audio stuff in to it. I just noticed I don't have my powered monitor speakers hooked in to it, hmmm. I don't have some of the aux computer stuff into it either like the video monitor. Wanna talk Power ? What do you use, the wall or conditioning ? I'm in the home project studio non-professional (presently) business. What are you in ? kylen
djwayne Location: USA Posts: 583	Posted - Wed Jul 09, 2003 9:03 pm  I'm in a home studio enviorment. I use lots of surge protection on everything, and a little radio frequency filter I got from Radio Shack on the computer as well as the surge protection. This works okay most of the time, but a battery back-up power supply would be beneficial, as I do get flash power outages occassionally. They're usually just long enough to crash the computer, and a battery back-up should keep the computer going. Everything is grounded thru the grounding plugs and rack mounting. It's a very quiet system for the most part, and I don't feel the need for any additional grounding. I do have an 8 switch rack unit that seperates many of my rack components, like I keep all my recording equipment on one switch, signal processors on another, power amps on another, ect.. and it has it's own circuit breaker. If I were to add anything it would be GFI protection, but I've never gotten so much as a tiny shock in my studio. If I were doing alot of repair work inside my rack units, I would want a GFI outlet covering me, but I rarily open anything up, and if I do I always make sure it's unplugged. Most everything in my studio is very low voltage, such as signal, speaker, or midi lines, and the wiring is always heavier gauge than necessary. The majority of my equipment I bought new, and is in very good condition. I don't have any really old tube stuff, so everything runs fairly cool.
MusicConductor Location: USA Posts: 1524	Posted - Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:41 pm  Shameful as it is, my home setup, which is extremely lo-tech, is merely plugged in to a power strip with the most rudimentary surge protection. Nothing has ever been fried. I may just be lucky. At the office, however, I've been furnished with a UPS for the critical computer equipment and filtered/surge protected power for most of the rest. And in the tracking room, as well as for all the other sound and technical equipment in the building (related to the house sound system) we are on balanced power -- and we're not even in Europe! I was hoping that the claims that equipment hums are greatly reduced and everything runs cleaner would be more obvious to us; unfortunately, it isn't a huge help with the equipment I presently record with. Time will tell if it was a wise investment.
Graeme Member Location: Spain Posts: 4663	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:20 am  Here, the power is unreliable - to put it politely - and everything is supported by UPS's. We've got the damn things all over the place! However, the upside is that it also means the power supply is well-protected from any spikes and dips. I'm operating a commercial restoration business and I simply can't take the risk of the sort of problems a power outage can produce. Imagine trying to tell a client that his precious and unique acetate tape recording got mangled because the power failed while the machine was spooling it!! If I take kit out of here (very rarely) then one or more UPS units will go with it. Similarly, my live playing rig has UPS support. _________________ Graeme Don't forget to join the new CEP forum at audiomastersforum
Havoc Posts: 735	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 3:49 am  Something I alway put off. So wiring is below standard. To be honest, everything is plugged into 1 outlet. Of this comes a large power strip with switch ("industrial use only, do not use at home or office" labelled). Of this is a second strip for occasionally used gear that stays off most of the time (scanner, tape deck,hub). There is no earth connection, this was not fashionable at the time the house was build. So far no problems. Line is stable over here, with very few outages. I recently checked a few inputs and there was no 50Hz around! Could hardly believe it. Only problem is the pick-up (very appropriate name).
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:02 am  We have binary power here - it's either working or it's not. Usually it is! But it's not spike-free, so I use filters on it. Not Tandy/Radio Shack ones, but ex-mainframe computer ones in big steel boxes. I have several - and yes they get taken out on location. Sitting in the intake cupboard is a hefty power conditioner involving a motor-driven Variac, but it's not presently wired in, because there has been no real need for it. Quote: Also I've read that in Europe some of you folks have balanced power distruibuted to you. I mean that there is 60 volts ac on each leg of the 2-wire power, and of course the ground for the third wire if the power supply of your equipment needs it. Is that cool ? Where on earth is that? Centre-grounded power is pretty dangerous, although centre referenced (by a very high impedance!) might be okay. The domestic supplies here are 'unbalanced' - you ground the neutral locally at the entry point to your property. What you get in some domestic property, and most industrial sites is all three phases of the power available - which comes with its own problems! The best power supply I ever got to use on a regular basis was from the three-phase driven motor-alternator set that ran a computer mainframe - this was guaranteed to be clean, by virtue of it being generated on the premises, and in the event of a power cut, it held up quite well for several seconds - long enough to initiate emergency procedures, anyway. Here, the big filters each have 3 outputs, and these go off to individual power distribution blocks, so there is no shortage of technical mains available. Anybody caught plugging a fridge or vacuum cleaner into it will get shot! This is generally what happens in a lot of studios - the cleaners, etc. can use any power sockets that don't say technical mains on them. The other supply precaution in place is lightning protection. I have had some serious trouble with this in the past, and I would prefer not to repeat it! The network cabling is similarly protected - the last strike took out a hub completely, and it wasn't even a direct one. _________________
Havoc Posts: 735	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:20 pm  Balanced power is when you use an isolation transformer, with a split secondary and ground the center tap of the secondary side. Feel free to correct/enhance. Quote: The domestic supplies here are 'unbalanced' - you ground the neutral locally at the entry point to your property. Don't count on this! Over here in belgium, the regulation changes every other year, and depend also on your suplier. Quote: ...ex-mainframe computer ones in big steel boxes... a hefty power conditioner involving a motor-driven Variac... three-phase driven motor-alternator... Heck Steve, some of your posts just have me wonder what kind of job you have! You must be living in some kind of techno heaven for geeks. This coupled with some references about laboratory grade voltage references, atomic clocks. Slowly I get a vision of a slightly eccentric scientist in his lab (think cavern size, rack upon rack fading into the distance)
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:41 pm  Quote: Slowly I get a vision of a slightly eccentric scientist in his lab (think cavern size, rack upon rack fading into the distance) I envision Alfred... down in the "Bat Cave" gathering information for Bruce Wayne. Do you also double as a butler? _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 12:57 pm  Here's a pretty good paper on it from the Furman site: http://www.furmansound.com/pdfdata/whitepaper.pdf It covers the center tap balanced power Havoc was talking about, Graeme's UPS boxes, and Steve's variac. Quote: I envision Alfred... down in the "Bat Cave" Hmmm... would Superman's Brainiac work, except for the evil part... kylen
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 1:11 pm  On a serious note..... typing "power conditioner" in the Search feature does turn up some threads where folks allude to their various setups. Like this one... 'Surge protector...' . I have since added more "toys" to my personal fray (namely a UPS that everything audio runs to), but I still maintain each rack having it's on Power strip. All racks run to a Power conditioner and the conditioner runs to the UPS. When I built my studio, I had an Electrician wire the rooms and every wall is on a different breaker and then the A/C units are on their own breakers (as are the lights). _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
jonrose Location: USA Posts: 2901	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 5:33 pm  Here's a company that makes balanced power units I like, but they're not cheap: http://www.equitech.com/ Very fine build-quality, though. Yes, I have hefty power conditioning, and even when in the field, I have some modified stuff in the rack to help save my ass. It's a bit more trouble to haul this stuff around, but it's worth it. Mobile recording seems to dictate just as much protection as if I were in the studio working. Playing at a gig, I won't bother with UPS, though - there's really no point in being the only amplified instrument on the stage that can still be heard when the lights go out! Heh-heh!!! :D All the best... -Jon _________________
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:22 pm  VoodooRadio wrote: Quote: Slowly I get a vision of a slightly eccentric scientist in his lab (think cavern size, rack upon rack fading into the distance) I envision Alfred... down in the "Bat Cave" gathering information for Bruce Wayne. Do you also double as a butler? You rang? Actually it is a bit that way down the 'lab' end. If you can wait until tomorrow, I will provide pictures - but it's a mess, because I haven't cleared it up for a while and its become a temporary dumping ground. The racks don't quite fade into the distance, because there isn't room (it's not very big) but they do extend to the ceiling. I am thinking of getting rid of some of the kit, because it was there for some quite specific purposes that are unlikely to occur again, and quite frankly, I could do with the space. Fortunately it's not the only place I have to work in, because it can get a little cocoon-like. _________________
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:30 pm  kylen wrote: Hmmm... would Superman's Brainiac work, except for the evil part... That is a whole lot closer to the truth than you could ever realise! _________________
VoodooRadio Location: USA Posts: 3971	Posted - Thu Jul 10, 2003 6:40 pm  Quote: That is a whole lot closer to the truth than you could ever realise! So, you WERE "Q" in all those Bond films!! _________________ I said Good Day! Voodoo
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 3:06 am  VoodooRadio wrote: Quote: That is a whole lot closer to the truth than you could ever realise! So, you WERE "Q" in all those Bond films!! No....! It was a long time ago, but a small group of us put together all of the computer hardware that you can see on Superman 3, including all the on-screen stuff. I can tell you that arranging what we know here as a BBC micro (an old 6502 machine that sold into UK schools big-time) to genlock its display output dot clock to a 35mm arriflex movie camera was - interesting. The results looked like they'd come from a mainframe, but the truth was rather more mundane than that! The mainframe looked pretty, with all of its lights twinkling, etc, but that's about all it did! And the worst part was that although we got paid for providing all this hardware and programming, we never got a screen credit. We did a few other general release films around that time as well, but nothing quite as big as S3. Ahh, wet weekends at Pinewood... Kryptonite... _________________
Graeme Member Location: Spain Posts: 4663	Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 5:27 am  jonrose wrote: Playing at a gig, I won't bother with UPS, though - there's really no point in being the only amplified instrument on the stage that can still be heard when the lights go out! Heh-heh!!! That's not the reason I use one. My system relies on a portable computer (which is pretty immune to power grollies) and a Ztar - which is a rather delicate (and *very* expensive) bit of electronics and, I suspect, would very easily fall over. Rather than blow the Ztar up - which would be costly and time-consuming to have repaired - I would rather carry some protection, in the form of a UPS. Also, on the very few occasions I use this rig, I am often working with acoustic intrument players so, when the lights go out, we can still keep going - including me . _________________ Graeme Don't forget to join the new CEP forum at audiomastersforum
cooknkpl Location: USA Posts: 256	Posted - Fri Jul 11, 2003 7:57 am  My wife lets me make 50% of the household decisions, so I'm happy to say the power is balanced in our house! _________________ Kevin P. Looker The Good Shepherd's Studio www.goodshepherdstudio.com
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 5:00 am  SteveG wrote: Actually it is a bit that way down the 'lab' end. If you can wait until tomorrow, I will provide pictures - but it's a mess, because I haven't cleared it up for a while and its become a temporary dumping ground. The racks don't quite fade into the distance, because there isn't room (it's not very big) but they do extend to the ceiling. First you have to get the camera back... anyway, this is about a quarter of it... and this is some mess: (that clock was a pressie from my sister, who has an even more warped sense of humout than mine....) and the top of this pile is at ceiling level... and some of the more audio-related stuff is a bit further back... ...and yes, I really ought to get on with the clear-out. In some ways, it's worse than it looks. There's the whole rack with the standards stuff on (just to the left of the first pic) which has far more on it than I'll ever make sensible use of again, and I could do with that space back for some of the radio/audio stuff that's beginning to take over again. SWMBO is remarkably good-natured about it, considering... _________________
Dakota Location: Spain Posts: 74	Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 5:33 am  Quote: anyway, this is about a quarter of it... I'd be in geek heaven Steve!
djwayne Location: USA Posts: 583	Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 6:57 am  Steve, Those are interesting pictures. Reminds me of my high school days in the electronics class I took. It was a two year technical class, in which our goal was to build a color televison from scratch, and learned all the circuitry involved. We used to use the scopes, signal generators, power supplies, and of course the parts drawers. We used to strip out old tv sets for parts, tubes, capacitors, resistors ect.. We could never have enough parts !! I'll have to get one of those magnifying glass stands, that looks like it would be very usefull !!
kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 10:25 am  Very cool pics SteveG! I can smell the rosin.:) One might think you even wind your own resistors, or at least tolerance check them first!:P A first class wizards studio.8) kylen
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Sun Jul 13, 2003 1:30 pm  djwayne wrote: I'll have to get one of those magnifying glass stands, that looks like it would be very usefull !! It has two fluorescent lamps in it, and it is an absolute boon as far as my failing eyesight is concerned - I'm getting more and more long-sighted by the day! Quote: One might think you even wind your own resistors, or at least tolerance check them first! Hehe! I have three bridges! (two you can't see). I don't wind them, but with the aid of a ratiotran, I can check relative tolerances to about 0.0001% if I really need to - but I don't as a rule! _________________
Skinah Location: Australia Posts: 48	Posted - Mon Jul 14, 2003 8:30 pm  What sort of power conditioner is best for audio ? what different types are available and how can you tell them apart when your shopping for one ? I've been wanting to clean up the power for a while now and I saw a rack mountable "power conditioner" with 2 lights that can be used to light up the gear in a rack. I opened it up and almost laughed at what they were calling power conditioning. It was just 1 cap otherwise it was just the same as a power board ! any advice would be apprieated. _________________ Regards, Matt www.pcmus.com
kylen Posts: 290	Posted - Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:22 pm  Quote: What sort of power conditioner is best for audio ? Hi Skinah, What kind of equipment are we talking about? Where is it going to be used (home or various places - clubs, churches, etc)? What's your power grid like? Mine out here in San Jose is dirty and brown - lights dim ever hour for a second or so. It also changes during the day. Just wondering, kylen p.s. You also might try the new Cool Edit Forums over at: http://www.separatedband.com/cep/
jonrose Location: USA Posts: 2901	Posted - Mon Jul 14, 2003 10:25 pm  You get what you pay for... :) The most basic units out there only have MOV's (metal oxide varistors) which clamp at a certain over-voltage point (they look like a ceramic disc capacitor). Every "hit" they take is destructive to the device(s). Most inexpensive units (less than, say, US$400) aren't really power line conditioners at all - they have surge/spike protection and some EMI/RFI filtering, lamps, voltage meters, perhaps other bells and whistles. A power line conditioner can do all of the above as well as actually maintaining a reasonable working voltage (within a certain current and voltage range, supplied by the mains - usually around 15 Amperes and between 90-135 Volts AC). More expensive units may actually have a decent iron-core isolation transformer (a beefy one is best) which will inherently smooth things out, also. At the least, you need surge protection and some filtering. Just my opinion, of course. Less than US$100 will buy you some nice rack-mount units (with lighting) that are very lightweight and great for live rigs. True voltage regulation starts at about the US$400 mark - around here, anyway... You can also buy all manner of UPS (uninterruptable power supply). This also isolates your gear from the mains. If you need a lot of current, however, these aren't feasible (unless you have deep pockets). That's why I don't bother with it on my live bass rig (unlike Graeme, I'd need something that would hold up a couple of kilowatts worth of gear! heh-heh! ) Best... -Jon _________________
Graeme Member Location: Spain Posts: 4663	Posted - Tue Jul 15, 2003 4:21 am  jonrose wrote: That's why I don't bother with it on my live bass rig (unlike Graeme, I'd need something that would hold up a couple of kilowatts worth of gear! heh-heh! ) I think you need a UPS for that - mind you, it would be twice the physical size of the rig! _________________ Graeme Don't forget to join the new CEP forum at audiomastersforum
jonrose Location: USA Posts: 2901	Posted - Tue Jul 15, 2003 1:32 pm  A power line conditioner in my rack is quite sufficient, my friend. I don't fancy playing unplanned bass solos at the whim of the power company. If the P.A. and the guitars (etc.) go off, then why shouldn't my rig? Hardly seems fair... heh! Now, if I was actually playing with an acoustic group, at an acoustic gig (I don't have any acoustic basses, at present), then I could see using a UPS live. Best... -Jon _________________
Andrew Rose Location: United Kingdom Posts: 875	Posted - Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:39 am  SteveG wrote: VoodooRadio wrote: Quote: That is a whole lot closer to the truth than you could ever realise! So, you WERE "Q" in all those Bond films!! No....! It was a long time ago, but a small group of us put together all of the computer hardware that you can see on Superman 3, including all the on-screen stuff. I can tell you that arranging what we know here as a BBC micro (an old 6502 machine that sold into UK schools big-time) to genlock its display output dot clock to a 35mm arriflex movie camera was - interesting. The results looked like they'd come from a mainframe, but the truth was rather more mundane than that! The mainframe looked pretty, with all of its lights twinkling, etc, but that's about all it did! And the worst part was that although we got paid for providing all this hardware and programming, we never got a screen credit. We did a few other general release films around that time as well, but nothing quite as big as S3. Ahh, wet weekends at Pinewood... Kryptonite... Completely OT, but my next door neighbour played General Romoff in Superman IV. Mind you someone writing on a Superman forum wrote "It is worst film I ever paid to see in the cinema as well. It does feature Stanley Lebor (Howard from Ever Decreasing Circles) as an evil mastermind, though, which is worth seeing." Stan's the man next door... Ho hum8) _________________ Andrew Rose www.pristineaudio.co.uk
zemlin Location: USA Posts: 1156	Posted - Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:54 am  I'm a firm believer in UPS's on all computer equipment. I have a number of them in the house and one of these: dedicated to my DAW and other recording gear. When I go on site, this comes with me. I keep my eyes open for great deals on UPS's at all times. That particular unit - 500VA APC - cost me $10 after a rebate. _________________ Karl Zemlin - www.cheap-tracks.com Host of the World Wide Cool Edit Collaboration Procedural Debate
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Fri Jul 18, 2003 10:42 am  Andrew Rose wrote: Completely OT, but my next door neighbour played General Romoff in Superman IV. Mind you someone writing on a Superman forum wrote "It is worst film I ever paid to see in the cinema as well. It does feature Stanley Lebor (Howard from Ever Decreasing Circles) as an evil mastermind, though, which is worth seeing." Stan's the man next door... Ho hum8) I've only seen Superman III once - and that was only to check what we'd done. I didn't even get to go to the premiere - in fact I really didn't get too much out of the experience at all - it was just a lot of hard work in a tearing hurry - as always. _________________
William Rose Location: USA Posts: 467	Posted - Fri Jul 18, 2003 6:34 pm  Andrew Rose wrote: [brCompletely OT, but my next door neighbour played General Romoff in Superman IV. Mind you someone writing on a Superman forum wrote "It is worst film I ever paid to see in the cinema as well. It does feature Stanley Lebor (Howard from Ever Decreasing Circles) as an evil mastermind, though, which is worth seeing." Stan's the man next door... I thought his character's name was........Zod ? Or was that the big dumb guy ? All I can remember from that film, was the leader of the exiled trio (This must be your neighbor.) commanding someone to "Come and kneel before Zod !" But the big dumb guy didn't talk at all so, maybe he was commanding someone.......... At any rate, I remember that line. I've actually had an awful lot of fun with it over the years......Oh well, another time. Anyway tell your neighbor I'm a big fan.
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