What's the Deal? / Buying music for television commercials

People in Australia are interested in several of my songs and wish, "to buy the rights and would like some idea of what the cost might be for a small state of Australia (pop 500,000)."

What do I need to know? I 'm aware of time limts / limiting area use / limiting technologies of delivery. What about international use? What is reasonable? I've cleared all permissions: (songwriter/copyright) and (label/master). Do I ask for payment for both? Do I restrict abilities to make changes? Singers and performers still get prformance royalties as the songs will be of TV.

These are the people writing me: http://www.infernopromotions.com.au/
On their site they claim to get music for 3K USD vs 100K USD.  I'm new to licensing and need to know what is realistic and how to best negotiate deals.

I find it hard to believe forum members haven't had song licensing experience / knowledge? Amazing.

Brewer

I'm sending you a personal reply to this, Brewer.

I find it hard to believe forum members haven't had song licensing experience / knowledge? Amazing.

You do realise you're asking this in the Radio, TV and Video Production forum? Not seen many songwriters here myself.

You do realise you're asking this in the Radio, TV and Video Production forum? Not seen many songwriters here myself.

Yeah, but Bernie, he did say he was new to licencing, and as this pertains to radio usage, he probably figured he'd find some radio bods in this forum... and whaddya know? He got you and me! 2 radio guys! Who'd a thunk it?

And you guys are the best!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry if I am in the wrong forum. I don't want to make a mistake making deals for people who trust me to do the right thing. This being TV / Radio - I thought I'd get the inside line on what to watch out for, and how things are really done.

I get a sense that to get things in motion one has to give. Knowing how things work is power. Protection so I don't sign a bad deal.

Thanks, Brewer

Sorry if I am in the wrong forum.

Seems like a perfectly appropriate forum to me. If it wasn't here, it would have to be in OT, and somehow, this one seems better...

Seems obvious to add a sub forum for musicians as Adobe Audition is now used by more and more musicians.

Seems obvious to add a sub forum for musicians as Adobe Audition is now used by more and more musicians.

The whole site does not discriminate between musicians and any other users. My inclination is always to lose redundant fora before gaining any more, and that's happened recently - no more changes are planned. Anyway, this particular issue is very much related to future production use of existing music, and this is entirely the correct forum for that.

Is this something that your music rep like ASCAP or BMI can take care of for you, at least in part, or for consultation?  Just a thought.  

There are several licenses involved:

Synch License - controls TV use - and is controlled by the copyright owner. Master Rights - controls use of a particular song master version - and is controlled by the party that owns the song master - usually the record label. In the internet age, the artist and the label can both co-own the master. Then there are other rights, one of which controls use of a song over various technologies. Time of use; area of use; position and importance in a TV /Film. When a song is well known, an ad agency might want to use a certain master containing a specific artist for the power of the artist's appeal to the public. If you get permission to use synch rights, that does not allow you to use a master, you still must get master rights. However, if you get master rights, but not synch rights (the copyright owner doesn't like what you want to use the song for) - then you are a ship stuck out of water.

Synch rights and master rights are usually sold as separate deals: 5K for one and 5K for the other.

What I'm searching for, short of learning from paying a lawyer, is what I can fairly expect to get from ad people buying synch and master rights. To add to the fun and games, there is also a new technology licence; length of use; and version desired. Plus, if music is played on TV, performance rights royalties must be paid by the ad agency to the copyright holder/song publisher.

One issue is ad agencies often tell clients that they can secure rights for a "Song." Ad agencies then expect to pay licence rights totaling several thousand dollars vs 10K, 20K, and up depending on how famous the music is and how much the agency wants it.

Since people here walk the hallowed halls of radio, I'm turning over stones (not disturbing the "stoned") to see if anyone here has agecy pricing knowledge for use of songs in commercials. Whew!! I think that's the gist of it. The goal here is not to get locked into a bad deal for "perpetuity" and the "world."

Is this something that your music rep like ASCAP or BMI can take care of for you, at least in part, or for consultation? Just a thought

ASCAP / BMI / SESAC collect performance royalties due the songwriter/copyright holder for use of a song via: TV / Internet / Radio / Games / Toys.

ASCAP
BMI
SESAC

Here is what I've uncovered so far:

MUSIC LICENSING NUGGETS OF GOLD
Ref 1 - Licensing Example: Dancing Bear
Ref 2 - Money for Your Music / The Cold Hard Facts About Music Licensing
Ref 3 - Music Licenses & Copyrights
Ref 4 - 11 Most Frequently Asked Questions abour Music Licensing
Ref 5 - Licensing 101



Brewer

Congrats Brewer, it's always nice to get recognition. Best 'o' luck.

Mark

At the moment - no news. I'm waiting to hear the ad agency's response to my question as to what they offer for rights. So keep busy.

Currently I'm involved with:
SongCatalog - has ad competitions for songs / I'm deal with them trying to win ad campaigns here in the US.
IODA - sends checks quartlerly for digital song sales / downloads on the net.

A film director I worked for told me, "Celebrate when the check clears the bank." He wisely told me what you do during "downtime" can make or break you. Back to jamming/writing more rock blues.

Brewer

There are a number of professional TV music composers who inhabit the Music Business section of the forum at www.soundonsound.com so it might be worth asking the same question there.

Cheers

James.

Typically, licenses are for 13 weeks and only for the explicit market it will air in.  Multiple markets mean multiple licenses.  Ad to air 14 weeks generally requires a 26 week license purchase.  In North America this used to be the sole domain of the Harry Fox Agency in NYC.  Don't know who handles this now though.

You can see what one of your internet "competitors" is charging at FreeplayMusic.com