Ribbon mic with Mackie Preamp

Cool!  Keep us posted on this.    

But will it still sound like a ribbon mic?

Oh and why don't we all use more ribbon mics  than we seem to use?  Even in the big studios there are not a lot of them around...

Also they would seem to be superior to condensers in most applications except for some close miking and vocals.  Newer models are rugged and reliable... or are they?  

Maybe it's because they are magnetic and collect iron particles, but then so are other dynamic mics., or they traditionally have bad impedance matching to cheaper preamps.

Here's a blerb from the Royer SF-24 hype:

>>>>
Impedance Matching
The electronics in the SF-24 provide a perfect load to the ribbon elements at all times, allowing the microphone to deliver 100% of its full sonic potential regardless of the input characteristics of the following mic-pre. Due to its low-impedance output, SF-24's can also be used on extremely long cable runs with minimal signal loss.

A good impedance match is critical to ribbon microphones. Impedance mis-matching loads a ribbon improperly, resulting in loss of low end, diminished body, lowered sensitivity and an overall compromised performance. With our Active Series ribbon mics, the ribbon element lives in a perfect world. It sees an optimum impedance match at all times regardless of the following equipment, so its performance will never be compromised by the effects of improper loading. In addition, the ribbon element cannot be damaged by phantom power, electrical glitches or miswired cables.
>>>>>

But will it still sound like a ribbon mic?

That is a very good question. And quite frankly, I don't know yet, because I have no idea what the effect of turning the ribbon into what's effectively a shorted turn will be. This may sound somewhat drastic, and I suppose it is, really. It will still have a figure-8 polar response, and still be a pressure gradient mic though, so fundamentally it won't change. But what this will do for the dynamics and frequency response remains entirely to be seen.

Oh and why don't we all use more ribbon mics  than we seem to use?  Even in the big studios there are not a lot of them around...

It's as much of a fashion thing as anything. As specialist mics, they've never gone out of fashion - the BBC use loads of Coles noise-cancelling 4101 commentator mics every day, and they are all ribbon mics. And they still use 4038's of course. Ribbons really went out of fashion when condensors came along - they were more robust, and had a few other desirable charactersitics as well - like being inherently cardioids unless you start to do interesting thigs inside them. I don't know whether I'd describe them as 'superior' - but they are certainly different animals.

I can't get the idea of tension on a condenser diaphram and the resultant 'tizz' out of my mind now.    Kinda like a banjo skin...  I guess i'm getting the ribbon fever too.  

The latest update on this is that ribbons do work as current-output devices - and as far as I can tell, they don't sound bad doing it either. But (there's always a but, isn't there!) there are still some significant noise issues to address - I can't get anywhere near to a good preamp/impedance converter out of this yet. Two of us have now tried 5 different permutations of this, and I'm getting close to identifying where the real problem is. But whether it is economically still fixable remains to be seen. This could end up being a very expensive novelty, but since that would put it into the realms of certain mic pre's anyway, it doesn't seem like a reason not to continue!

I finally got the mics - have only had time for a very brief test.  Plugged it into the Mackie and was speaking into it with the mic about 12" from my mouth.  Needed to crank the gain on the mixer and was getting a light signal then.  Sounds like it will be a sweet mic for voice work, if nothing else - un-sibilant & very rich sounding.  Don't want to call it dark until I try it on some different stuff.  I'll be able to test them on a children's choir in a couple weeks.

Steve - have not been keeping up on this mic adventure in-depth - I will take the time to read it someday when I have more time.  Do the noise issues you discuss above mean that something like the Joemeek TwinQ would not be a good pre for ribbons, or is the noise an issue only with the mods you're making?

I was thinking about saving my pennies and putting a TwinQ next on my shopping list.

Steve - have not been keeping up on this mic adventure in-depth - I will take the time to read it someday when I have more time.  Do the noise issues you discuss above mean that something like the Joemeek TwinQ would not be a good pre for ribbons, or is the noise an issue only with the mods you're making?

I was thinking about saving my pennies and putting a TwinQ next on my shopping list.

If we assume that the TwinQ has the same impedance converter as the MQ1 (there's a very good chance that this is the case - there's rather less flexibility there), then it may be okay with a ribbon via a transformer - I can check out the MQ1 in this configuration over the weekend, and let you know.

Okay, I've checked this now - and if you do a direct comparison using the same ribbon mic into the JoeMeek MQ1 and the mic inputs on a Folio Notepad, the Folio wins hands down - there is vastly less noise. The noise levels with the MQ1 would be sufficient to give you some very real headaches, I think. Ribbons are definitely not it's forte. And I have to say that when you look at how the input is configured, I can't say that I'm that surprised that it doesn't work very well.

The really daft thing is that I suspect that by reconfiguring the MQ1 slightly, it could be made to work a whole lot better.

I'm not out of alternative ideas for using a current input, though - there are several more techniques available that I haven't tried with audio from a ribbon mic yet. None of them are that hard to knock up on a bit of breadboard, so I will continue to work my way through them to see which ones, if any, can deliver the goods. I think it's worth pursuing, because I got, through all the noise, a tantalisingly clear sound when I finally got the basic technique running.

I'm not out of alternative ideas for using a current input, though - there are several more techniques available that I haven't tried with audio from a ribbon mic yet. None of them are that hard to knock up on a bit of breadboard, so I will continue to work my way through them to see which ones, if any, can deliver the goods. I think it's worth pursuing, because I got, through all the noise, a tantalisingly clear sound when I finally got the basic technique running.

Any updates?

Any updates?

Not one you'll like...

I tried two more methods of extracting the current from a ribbon mic (this is the only possible alternative to transforming the microscopically small voltage), and both failed miserably, because even the current output seems to be in the same region as the internal current noise on the devices I used. Unless I can find a device with an incredibly low current noise input, then the humble transformer is going to win hands down, I think. Which is rather annoying, because the other method has some practical advantages. I don't have time to look at this again for a while, and my bro-in-law (who has the testbed ribbon mic with the stuffed transformer) isn't making much of a fuss about it at present, so a lot of the urgency isn't there from his POV either.

So it waits until I stumble onto a better energy converter methodology...