Mixer that controls CEP

As I understand it, everything at  Options > Shortcuts (aka ALT+K), can be triggered by MIDI.  It would appear that this includes making the CEP/AA mixer window pop up by using a MIDI trigger - but as of yet, the volume sliders don't seem to respond to MIDI CC7 values.

Before attempting to enable MIDI triggering, you’ll need to choose a device for MIDI In that’s recognized by Windows, such as a soundcard’s built-in MIDI interface or a MIDI interface card. To do this, go to Options > Device Properties and click on the MIDI In tab. Use the drop-down list to select the device to be used for triggering.

For those of you with an external keyboard connected to your computer, I assume you select the appropriate device from this list.  I'm further assuming that the device you select from this list is the "gate" that determines whether MIDI data sent from your external controller gets passed through to CEP/AA. Finally, I assume that MIDI data is MIDI data - whether sent from an external controller into CEP/AA, or from a MIDI file into CEP/AA.  For example - djwayne was able to get a track volume control to pop up by sending a MIDI signal from his external controller.  I assume that if the same MIDI signal was embedded in an empty MIDI file and the file was "played", thereby sending the signal into CEP/AA, that the same track volume control would pop up.

On my CEP 2.1 computer, at the drop-down list referred to in the quote above, I am able to select any of the various MIDI cables I have installed (e.g., Hubi's, MIDIYoke, Speedsoft, etc.)  In a perfect world, I am assuming that I should be able to launch Cakewalk, send MIDI out through a MIDI cable (e.g. LB1), select that same MIDI cable from the drop down list in CEP/AA, and get CEP/AA to behave the same as if I had an external controller hooked up.  I'm in the process of testing this now and will report back later.  If someone tries this, I'd be interested to hear your results.  Note that I'm talking about the MIDI file simply sending MIDI code - not MIDI notes.  We are not trying to make music here with the MIDI file; rather, we are trying to control CEP/AA with the MIDI file.

The reason I am curious is that I have recently learned how to do this in SynthEdit.  The MIDI file controls everything - record, playback, even flying faders for volume control (want to change something, just change the code in the MIDI file).  Don't like the way the volume is mixed on Channel 2 (which controls wav file 2), simply change Channel 2 to an unused Channel #, re-record the volume changes on a new Channel 2 (still in the same MIDI file).  Now you have a different mix without affecting your wav files at all.  It has occurred to me that this process might transfer to CEP/AA - except that it seems the flying faders part probably won't as things stand just now.

At this point in time, I'm just happy to be able to control transport features via the midi triggers. I don't have a desktop midi controller with a series of volume controls anyhow, nor do I really need that. It would be nice, but a luxury I can't afford at this time. I do have an anolog Mackie 24 x 8 outboard mixer for pre-mixing my various sound modules before they get recorded in to Audition. I also control my 5.1 output thru the Mackie. Using the mouse to control Audition's volume sliders on the on-screen mixer, is simple enough.

   Using volume envelopes is very much like having automation, as you can pre-set various volume changes thru-out the clip. You can also pre-set various panning changes as well, even in the 5.1 realm, with the Multi-Channel Encoder.

 As far as having a remote controller goes, I don't really need it as I can turn Audition on, go in another room,  let it roll for hours, edit out want I don't want , and save what I do want. It's not like having to turn a tape recorder on and off to save tape. Re-playing multiple takes and listening to what you just recorded is where it comes in handy, and this can be done using the Yamaha RY-30 Drum Machine as a midi trigger set to control the transport controls. I would guess any midi drum machine would also work as a series of midi triggers. You could also use an old midi keyboard, and assign various transport tasks to the various keys.

For a simple remote control, I'm surprised that the Red Rover hasn't got a mention.  However, you won't see the faders move on screen - and not with any other controller either, since the software just isn't coded for that.

For the record, I was not talking about MIDI commands. The US428 will allow you to arm tracks, move faders, solo & mute tracks, start and stop playback and recording, etc without any MIDI input. I actually tried to figure out how to use MME from my digital mixer (before I got the US428) but I couldn't get that to work.

Just remember that the faders (and pan controls) won't allow you to move the gain up, then down, during the playback of a song: when you move it UP, it goes UP from the beginning, and when you go DOWN, it goes DOWN from the beginning, just as it does when you use the mouse to raise or lower levels. I hope that, in the future, it will be possible to emulate what you do with the envelopes (i.e., have a passage lower in volume, say, then raise it up again) through the action of the control surface's faders & knobs.

I have successfully loaded CEP 2.1 and AA on the same computer, connected CEP Track 1 Out to AA Track 1 In, CEP Track 2 Out to AA Track 2 In (and so on) with Virtual Audio Cables.  I launched the Mixer in CEP and mixed to taste.  Clicked Record in AA, clicked play in CEP, and ended up with a Session mixed to taste (relatively so; volume envelopes were still needed to fine-tune).  (I've also done this by connecting CEP's Outs to CEP's In's - both playing and recording simultaneously.) The problem is, this process changes the wav files.  What I am doing with SynthEdit does not act on the wav files themselves; it acts on the volume sliders, and pan pots, and anything else you might want to change in the process of mixing (effects, etc).  All of the SynthEdit controls which are acting on the wav files during playback are being controlled by MIDI data that is stored in a MIDI file.  Change the stored MIDI data, and you change how the SynthEdit controls respond, which changes the sound of the mix.  Trouble is, SynthEdit is a bit of a resource hog.  I don't know that you could even begin to process the same number of tracks in SynthEdit that you can with CEP/AA.  I need to experiment a bit more to see how comparable this method is or is not with CEP/AA, resource-usage-wise.  All of which is why I was hoping to discover that CEP/AA responded to MIDI code a bit more than it seems to.

For the record, I was not talking about MIDI commands. The US428 will allow you to arm tracks, move faders, solo & mute tracks, start and stop playback and recording, etc without any MIDI input.

Just to be clear, CEP/AA does respond to MIDI commands - even though lpdeluxe may not have been referring to them.  From the CEP 2.1 Help file (also stated above in this thread):

MIDI Triggering allows any of Cool Edit Pro’s Shortcuts to be called by MIDI events, which can be sent from a MIDI keyboard, a sequencer, or any other device capable of issuing a MIDI command.  ... If you are triggering from a MIDI controller you will need to select the controller ID and the Value which will trigger the event. [Example: the default is controller 64 - the Hold pedal. For on/off controllers like this, a value of 127 will trigger the event in the ON position, 0 in the OFF position].

Perhaps I should have prefaced my remarks with the confession that I am a MIDIot. I was looking at the specs on my gear last month and realized that I have a sound card w MIDI I/O; a mixer with MIDI I/O; a keyboard and a drum machine and another drum machine, dating from 1985 (!) and all of them are MIDI functional...


...and I'm not.

That said, the US428 is very useful. I once had a Red Rover, which expired, and I didn't realize how handy it was (even with its limited functionality) until I had to go back to a mouse. Thus the US428. By the way, a friend is getting good results with an Event EZBus which also boasts phantom power. He bought used on EBay for about what I paid new. The Red Rover had one feature that was better than the US428 or EZBus, and that was, it was small enough that you could easily stand at the mic to do a vocal overdub and control everything in your hands. The Tascam is a little more cumbersome, especially since I have it Velcroed to the desk.

For a simple remote control, I'm surprised that the Red Rover hasn't got a mention.

http://www.adstech.com/products/RDX-120/intro/RDX120_intro.asp?pid=RDX-120

The Red Rover had one feature that was better than the US428 or EZBus, and that was, it was small enough that you could easily stand at the mic to do a vocal overdub and control everything in your hands.

Ozpeter's talk about using VNC on a laptop to remotely control AA on his desktop got me to thinking about what I am doing in SynthEdit.  There are wireless hand-held devices that can run MIDI programs.  If CEP/AA controls responded to MIDI commands the way SynthEdit controls do, one could stand at the mike with a wireless hand-held device and control away, as lpdeluxe did with the Red Rover.  I suppose one could stand there with a wireless laptop, but that wouldn't be quite so convenient.  And velcro-ing the US428 to one's chest would probably not be so convenient either.

Hmmm. I'll have to look into that, it would free up my hands.

I hope that, in the future, it will be possible to emulate what you do with the envelopes (i.e., have a passage lower in volume, say, then raise it up again) through the action of the control surface's faders & knobs.

It would indeed be nice to have that in Audition. I think I've read that it can be done in Sonar (I own 2.2XL) if I'm not mistaken. I haven't tested it yet though.

I have a demo copy of Sonar 3 on my WinXP computer.  I hadn't thought to test whether Sonar responds to MIDI control commands.  Thanks for the idea.

No problem Sonar does respond to alot of external controllers actually. I just wasn't sure of the fact that it can record fader movements but I believe it does.

Speaking again of the MIDI, I had read all of that but I couldn't make it work with my setup, which was a Tascam TM-D1000 with "transport'" controls above the faders. Theoretically I could match up commands between the hardware buttons and customized shortcuts in CEP but in the event I ended up with a Red Rover (and later, the US428) so I abandoned what was not a promising route for me. Note that I'm not saying you can't make it work, only that it didn't all come together for me.

However, you won't see the faders move on screen - and not with any other controller either, since the software just isn't coded for that.

Er...  I can do all of that with the  Behringer BCF2000. The faders move on the screen, and not only that, the real (motorised) faders on the BCF move in response to the on screen faders being moved with the mouse. You can move up & down in banks of eight, so you can control as many tracks as you need. You can assign functions to the buttons to operate all the transport functions, mute, solo or arm tracks etc. If you open an existing session the faders immediately move to the position they were in when you previously closed the session.

There is also a slightly cheaper BCR2000 which has 24 rotary encoders which can be used for the same functions as the 8 faders on the BCF2000. Instead of being motorised, there is a ring of LEDs around the encoders to provide visual feedback. Either way, the LEDs or motors respond to signals sent by Audition. so obviously the code is there.

See this thread. I'm still licking some presets into shape as I only bought this today, but it does all it needs to do.

And it's a fraction of the price of a Mackie or a Tascam.

Er...  I can do all of that with the  Behringer BCF2000. The faders move on the screen, and not only that, the real (motorised) faders on the BCF move in response to the on screen faders being moved with the mouse. You can move up & down in banks of eight, so you can control as many tracks as you need. You can assign functions to the buttons to operate all the transport functions, mute, solo or arm tracks etc. If you open an existing session the faders immediately move to the position they were in when you previously closed the session.

Interesting.  I¡ve just had a quick play with the 01x again and, yes, you're right (at least I can move the first eight faders in the software and the motorised faders respond to changes to the software ones).  I guess, I must have had something wrong when I first tried it as, although I could get the software faders to move, I couldn't get the motorised ones to respond at all.

I could only get one bank working though and I haven't tried assigning any of the other functions to see what happens.  Obviously, I need to spend some more time with this.

However, it's all a bit moot for me, since AA's absence of ASIO means I still can't use the 01x as a multitrack device.  Also, I suspect that it won't actually record changes - but you may know different .

I'd also still like to a full mixer display - or at least a bank of eight.  A single channel really does nothing for me.

Also, I suspect that it won't actually record changes - but you may know different

That goes to the heart of my inquiry - and it sounds like others are interested in this also at the link provided by alanofoz.  Use a MIDI file to record the changes.  It shouldn't matter whether CEP/AA records them.

If CEP/AA will respond to MIDI commands issues by a hardware controller, it should respond to those same commands issued by a MIDI file played through something like Cakewalk or Winamp (would need to mess with virutal MIDI cables to do this, tho).  If this turns out to be true, now or in future upgrades, then it should be a pretty straightforward process to control the recording / playback of a session using a MIDI file.  All of the fader movements, etc. that you employ with the hardware controller would be recorded into the MIDI file.  When finished, control your session by playing back the MIDI file.  The MIDI file will send all of the start/stop commands, pan and volume change commands, etc.

I'm one of those who believe that AA doesn't need to get upgraded to the point that it becomes a MIDI sequencer.  But having the limited ability to record MIDI control codes to a MIDI file, said file to then be used to control your session, seems like a useful feature to have.  That would take away the need to mess with an external MIDI player and virutal MIDI cables, etc.