(drum) midi --> wave?

Steve, I haven't time for Dieter to hear that, How WHERE they recorded for the record

Okay, this is a 3rd-hand version of it - but I'll tell you who it's passed through: Jimmy Page told it to Philip Newell (who is an acoustician), and he retold it in print, but it's not available on the web - and a lot of the web versions don't agree with what Page has said. But hey, he was there... and what he says makes more sense of the sound, quite frankly. So this is not the version you will read elsewhere...

This all happened at Headley Grange, a large country house in Hampshire, UK. It is totally untreated acoustically.

Apparently Bonham was unhappy with the sound of his kit, and asked the sound crew to bring in another one, which was set up in the large hallway outside the room they were recording in. At the first opportunity, he went into the hall to try it, whilst everybody else remained where they were. Apparently what happened next was that the rest of the band heard this huge sound in their headphones. He'd left the door open, and all the open mics in the room had picked up the sound of the kit through the doorway.

The web versions of this story have a mic at the top of the stairway that leads out of the hall, but I believe Page's version (even though he told it to P.N. 12 years later), because that's what it sounds like. Now, the hall had wood panelled walls, a large staircase, a high ceiling, and a balcony above it. So as a space it was diffusive, absorbent at low frequencies, and had early and late reflections in copious quantities - so it was nothing at all like a 'studio' sound - which apparently pleased Bonham somewhat; he was not enamoured of kits recorded in the studio at all.

The recording was made on the Rolling Stones mobile by Andy Johns, who had been recording all of these goings-on with some interest. He said to the band that they should consider using the sound just as it was, because it sounded great on his monitors, and that's just what they did. (Although Page is apparently on record elsewhere saying that they did mic the kit - which makes sense, because it's pretty 'stereo' when you listen to it, despite the fact that it's still the sound of the space that stands out.)

Now, P.N. has acoustic reasons for telling this story, but there are other considerations too (some of which he also notes): The sound here was appropriate for the song. And no live space will serve all drum sounds - it was a combination of circumstances that inspired this performance at the time, and that's why, ultimately, any sampled drums (which always tend to sound the same, whatever the song) are never really going to do justice to a track in the same way that a live drummer who is there will. You can have the most pristine sound in the world, but it's not the same...

Excellent Steve, I think that fluttering noise I hear is just the rule book being tossed out the window  But my problem with my "Glorified Demos" is lack of drummer and clicking joints especially the knees, (All those solos like Eddie van Halen )

I'll look at the drum machine a little differently now

Regards

Mark

He'd left the door open, and all the open mics in the room had picked up the sound of the kit through the doorway.

Sounds plausible enough to me.  At one studio I used to work in, it was common practice to mic the kit, leave the studio door open and stick a couple of mics in the lobby outside for that 'big' sound.  

Of course, we could only do that at night (the building was shared with other businesses) and it did give rise to a couple of hilarious sessions when people were about (who should not have been) with live mics where they weren't expecting them ..

Because programs like drumkit from hell superior give you options that you don't have in a real recording enviornment.
For example the ability to tweak the leakage from one certain instrument through all the microphones, basically you can specify how much each mic picks up from each instrument individually

Also take note that with such vsti's every single hit has been recorded perfectly, in a room and using hardware that's very hard to afford for most recording engineers.
When recording a drummer live you don't have 100% control over the leakage, the quality of each single hit, the overall performance, and likely the room and equipment won't be as good as the ones used when creating these software packages.
When i say they surpass real drums i also have these things in mind

Dieter,
First, I can't understand why you need full control over each part of the drum set... I thought you are trying to get a real drum sound? Well, a real drum sound is combined from all the drums together.

As I said, there are several genres that require midi drums or samples such as hip hop, electronic and some pop. But I just can't understand how can you compare midi drums to a real drummer.

I have a great idea for you to prove it! Send me a short drum track you have prepared and I will try to imitate it. Then we will publish the results.

I have a great idea for you to prove it! Send me a short drum track you have prepared and I will try to imitate it. Then we will publish the results.

Now that's what I like - a challenge!!!!

[good enough]

Dieter,
1)First, I can't understand why you need full control over each part of the drum set...
2)I thought you are trying to get a real drum sound? Well, a real drum sound is combined from all the drums together.

3)As I said, there are several genres that require midi drums or samples such as hip hop, electronic and some pop. But I just can't understand how can you compare midi drums to a real drummer.

4)I have a great idea for you to prove it! Send me a short drum track you have prepared and I will try to imitate it. Then we will publish the results.

1)I don't *need* it, its just a cool feature to mess with for hobbyists, and might come handy for some situations. (Hey, do you *neeed* that expensive pre-amp or plugin or whatever)
2)well, all the drums together, that's exactly what makes dfhs (no they don't give me money ) so different from other programs. (with all the leakage options).  Concerning the "real drum sound", I think that with both a real drummer and -decent- drum software you can get a more-then-good enough drum sound.  But the first options requires lots more time, effort and money.  For hobbyists like me that is probably the most important factor.  However there is one more thing that I think is great about the software-solution: the ability to alter each beat, fill, every single hit.  As a drummer i would need to learn the whole part, with every detail in it, and there is no ability to change it afterwards.  When programming you can "pre-listen" how it will sound, change your fill's, etc etc, you know what I mean.

3) Why not? Its not hard to trick even big drummers or producers into believing it's real, when it's actually not, with the software that's available today....

4) You want me to create a "fake drum" part so you can make a "real drum" part to compare it to?  That's ok, I should have my software in a few weeks so we can do that.  They sure will sound different because of logical reasons (different recording environment,gear, and post-processing).  I wonder what you would consider when claiming one thing sounding more "real" then the other (because of the "side-effects" mentioned above) but for me it's ok [/b]

Our latest fake drum part:

Help

Our latest fake drum part:

Nice faking! What was used?

Regards

Mark

Our latest fake drum part:

Nice faking! What was used?

Regards

Mark

Answered here:

http://audiomastersforum.net/amforum/viewtopic.php?t=4281

Hi guys!
I was waiting for a sketch with a metronome so I could play the drums over this song, but unfortunately I didn't get one.
So here is the real drum track: http://drumsforyou.com/am
What do you think?

Hi guys!
I was waiting for a sketch with a metronome so I could play the drums over this song, but unfortunately I didn't get one.
So here is the real drum track: http://drumsforyou.com/am
What do you think?

Elad, I'm a bit confused here! Are these the drums for Joey Spinas "Help" that you really did as opposed to the "Reason" programmed drums that Joey did?

Regards

Mark

Yes.
I couldn't imitate it exactly since I didn't have any sketch to record on... and as you know it's not possible to record drums over midi drums.

Elad, are you sure yo aren't touting for business  

Regards

Mark

Dieter@be, are either of these links useful.  If you need something to play the drum samples with, say so and I can give you something.

http://hem2.passagen.se/lej97/kalava/
http://www.transjam.com/webdrum/

MArk:),
Believe me... we have better ways to advertise our service. I don't expect the 7 peoples that read this thread to float our server with tracks  

I was just trying to prove my point of view... and if it takes me a minute and a half to do so,  I think it worth it.

Besides, every musician needs to show off once in a while