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marikatech
Posts: 23
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 Posted - Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:00 pm
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Second post, no-ones answering me!
Ive created a preset tone (sine wave) which will have a brainwave synch' option added to it..
Now, here's the problem.
I tried using the graph to plot changes in frequency (hz) over a period of 5 mins. ie: First minute is high 'alpha', next 3 mins 'delta', next 1 min, 'deep delta'.
This should sound like a 'fast-vibrato' slowing down to softly 'pulsing-vibrato'....BUT, on playing it back, nothing changes.
So the question really is, how to add changes of frequency(hz) over the duration of the music?
Ive often been told Im not the sharpest knife in the draw, so please be simple with the answers..
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sat Jan 04, 2003 4:42 pm
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I can honestly say that, in all the time I have run CEP, I have never used this function, but I tried it out and managed to make it work - without even reading the help file, so maybe you are doing it incorrectly.
1. Load your base file (the sine wave) and then highlight it over the section you wish to change. I imagine, in your case, that means all of it.
2. Open the Brainwave menu.
3. Set the bottom rhs (High Settings) to your high alpha frequency and intensity, etc.
4. Set the bottom lhs (Low Settings) to your low delta frequency and intensity, etc.
5. With your pointing device draw the required curve on the graph. You can move the two end points and create new ones simply by clivking on the line. Your basic curve will be a step shape.
6. Hit 'OK' and your waveform will be generated.
Works for me - although I'm not sure what use it is.
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ozpeter
Location: Australia
Posts: 3200
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Posted - Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:02 pm
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Listen to the result and you will never be upset by a vocal removal post again.....
- Ozpeter
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marikatech
Posts: 23
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Posted - Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:04 pm
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Thanks Graeme, that did indeed work,
the answer about WHY i should want to do that is simple! If brainwave synhronisation is the desired function, then a higher frequency moving progressivly to a lower, makes a smoother transition from one state of brain activity to another state, rather than it suddenly and noticeably changes.....
BUT, does anyone know why the sine wave, if generated for say 2 mins, ends differently to how it began? ie: a definite change in tone? is there a way to keep it constant, or is that just what sine waves do?
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ozpeter
Location: Australia
Posts: 3200
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Posted - Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:11 pm
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The originally generated sine wave should be constant. I could imagine that if you listened to it at too high a level for two minutes your perception of it could change.
If you zoom right in to the waveform at the beginning and end of the file, can you see any difference?
- Ozpeter
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marikatech
Posts: 23
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Posted - Sat Jan 04, 2003 5:23 pm
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yeah its definitely different, but I tell you what..I just noticed 3 option boxes for the Phasing section
Start phase is set to '0'
phase difference set to 33
change rate set to: 1hz
so, could that be it, its got a change rate? meaning possibly.. if i didnt want a change, I should enter a value of zero in the 'change rate'??
......No, thats not it, just tried and made no difference. Its not my perception this time either, I did a ten second sine wave, looped it, and there's a definite change in tone heard when the loop repeats, the wave form even looks, 'wavy'...ie: it changes shape throughout..
Whats going wrong? Do i need to check the settings? if so, which settings?
Thanks
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:45 am
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Set the phase difference to zero.
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ozpeter
Location: Australia
Posts: 3200
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Posted - Sun Jan 05, 2003 4:38 am
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Sorry, bad post on my part - I'd forgotten that there were those variables in the tone generator.
- Ozpeter
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marikatech
Posts: 23
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Posted - Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:20 am
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No....the sine is still not being generated constant,...
all I do is go to: 'generate tones', choose BELL from presets, then you can set the "Start phase" "Phase Difference" and "Change rate" all to zero...set the duration for 5 or 10 seconds, and no matter, you'll see a wave form that visualy alters shape, and sounds different!
This is so with ALL the preset options being reset to zero, and even if no preset is selected.
Furthermore, Graem gave an answer about how to start at wave at a certain frequency, then slow it to another frequency by using the graph, and high and low settings in the brainwave synch mode...all well and good, it works for sure.
BUT, it would only seem to allow for the one shift, ie, from faster, to slower....what if I want to set it so it starts fast, goes slow, then goes slower, then back to the original faster speed? Just using the high/low settings doesnt seem to allow for that, or am I missing something?
Thanks
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sun Jan 05, 2003 5:52 am
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| marikatech wrote: |
No....the sine is still not being generated constant,...
all I do is go to: 'generate tones', choose BELL from presets, then you can set the "Start phase" "Phase Difference" and "Change rate" all to zero...set the duration for 5 or 10 seconds, and no matter, you'll see a wave form that visualy alters shape, and sounds different! |
That's because you selected the 'bell' shape!
If you just want a constant sine wave, do the following:
1 - With a blank screen select Generate | Tones and select your bit rate, etc.
2 - Check the 'Lock to these settings only' box
3 - Enter the base frequency you require
4 - Set all the 'Frequency components' sliders to zero, except for the first one, which should be set to 100
5 - Set 'Flavour' to sine and the 'Duration' to the length you want the file to be.
6 - Set all other parameters to zero, except the 'dB volume'. Set this to whatever level you desire (zero will be no volume at all).
Note: If you select the 1KHz line up preset, that will do most of the above for you.
| marikatech wrote: |
Furthermore, Graem gave an answer about how to start at wave at a certain frequency, then slow it to another frequency by using the graph, and high and low settings in the brainwave synch mode...all well and good, it works for sure.
BUT, it would only seem to allow for the one shift, ie, from faster, to slower....what if I want to set it so it starts fast, goes slow, then goes slower, then back to the original faster speed? Just using the high/low settings doesnt seem to allow for that, or am I missing something? |
Yes - you are missing something.
I told you that you could draw the chages using the graph. There's nothing to stop you starting high, going low and then going high again. In fact, you can draw any combination of change vs time you like.
The 'low settings' and 'high settings' windows merely alter the vertical scaling of the graph (against a horizontal time scale) which make it easier to draw a curve which only need to be altered slightly - ie, it improves the resolution.
I really can't understand why you are having so much trouble with this. All that I have told you, I worked out for myself - without even referencing the help files - and I've never even used this feature.
I am forced to ask the question, do you really know what you are trying to achieve as the end result?
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marikatech
Posts: 23
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Posted - Sun Jan 05, 2003 2:17 pm
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Hello Graeme!
many thanks for all the good advice...you wrote: Yes - you are missing something.
I told you that you could draw the chages using the graph. There's nothing to stop you starting high, going low and then going high again.
OK. you did say that, and it did work. But, I guess I assumed that setting the low setting to delta, and the high setting to alpha, ONLY allowed for a phase shift between the two. That would be a natural conclusion when you know little about the subject, would it not? And then it might also be a natural conclusion using the above logic, that if for funs sake, I wanted a phase-shift from beta to aplha, to theta and then delta, only being able to set two settings would prevent that!! :)
YoU WROTE: "The 'low settings' and 'high settings' windows merely alter the vertical scaling of the graph (against a horizontal time scale) which make it easier to draw a curve which only need to be altered slightly - ie, it improves the resolution.
Ok now Im completely lost...does this mean that the graph draws a curve showing how the chnages will transpire, for the duration of the wave, REGARDLESS of whats set as high/low settings?
ie: If I did a theta-delta-alpha-beta phase over 20 mins, what would need to be the setting in the high/low setting options? The highest frequency to the lowest? Or what?
I really can't understand why you are having so much trouble with this. All that I have told you, I worked out for myself - without even referencing the help files - and I've never even used this feature. I am forced to ask the question, do you really know what you are trying to achieve as the end result? [/font=Verdana][/size=1]
Ok first off, help for the BW synch' is minimal in cool pro, I believe cep 2000 had the most help, and secondly, I never entered this thread with a lot of knowledge about the subject, as I stated in my first post! Im no expert, but thanks to all the helpful answers Im slowly making progress.
What Im trying to do is creat a 30 min sine wave, that can be phased from a higher setting, to a lower, and maybe back up again, simple if you've used cool for some time, baffling if you're not experienced. I know a hell of a lot about the science of BW synchronising, and Im a hypnotherapist whose trying to create a backing track of bw entrainment for some new audio products, thats why I got CEP!
But Im a therapist, not an audio master, hence its a little confusing!
I guess I really should have just asked..how do I do this in simple terms....
So...to create a 30 min sine wave, that can be phased from a higher setting, to a lower, and maybe back up again, what will I need as low/high settings? for example?
And groan you may, but Im just trying to learn..
Thanks
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Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
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Posted - Sun Jan 05, 2003 3:32 pm
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| marikatech wrote: |
...I guess I assumed that setting the low setting to delta, and the high setting to alpha, ONLY allowed for a phase shift between the two. That would be a natural conclusion when you know little about the subject, would it not? And then it might also be a natural conclusion using the above logic, that if for funs sake, I wanted a phase-shift from beta to aplha, to theta and then delta, only being able to set two settings would prevent that!!  |
The 'low' and 'highh' settings merely change the scaling of the vertical axis of the graph - you can see this happen as you change them. When I said you could draw the cureve, I meant exactly that - you could draw any curve you wanted, bounded only by the limits set as previously described. I did say your curve would be a step shape, but that was merely taking your original example as a guide.
| marikatech wrote: |
YoU WROTE: "The 'low settings' and 'high settings' windows merely alter the vertical scaling of the graph (against a horizontal time scale) which make it easier to draw a curve which only need to be altered slightly - ie, it improves the resolution.
Ok now Im completely lost...does this mean that the graph draws a curve showing how the chnages will transpire, for the duration of the wave, REGARDLESS of whats set as high/low settings? |
No - the curve you draw can be any shape you like, however, the limits are establiched by whatever is in the settings boxes. The graph plots the frequency (vertical) against time (horizontal). The time is either the whole length of your file or the length of a smaller section (if you select one). To obtain the best resolution, it might be better to operate on the file in sections and setting the limits closest to the figure you desire to actually use.
| marikatech wrote: |
| ie: If I did a theta-delta-alpha-beta phase over 20 mins, what would need to be the setting in the high/low setting options? The highest frequency to the lowest? Or what? |
That's it in a nutshell.
| marikatech wrote: |
I really can't understand why you are having so much trouble with this. All that I have told you, I worked out for myself - without even referencing the help files - and I've never even used this feature. I am forced to ask the question, do you really know what you are trying to achieve as the end result? [/font=Verdana][/size=1]
Ok first off, help for the BW synch' is minimal in cool pro, I believe cep 2000 had the most help, and secondly, I never entered this thread with a lot of knowledge about the subject, as I stated in my first post! Im no expert, but thanks to all the helpful answers Im slowly making progress. |
My point was that it is pretty self-evident what to do, merely by changing a few things and observing what happens (eg, the scaling varying with the settings). So much so, the need for a help file - at least as far as the means of operation is concerned - is hardly necessary.
| marikatech wrote: |
| ..... But Im a therapist, not an audio master, hence its a little confusing! |
Fair comment - perhaps I was a little too scathing. Onee tends to expect people on this forum who are working to be audio engineers, not hypnotherapists. Please accept my apology for forgetting this is not always the case.
| marikatech wrote: |
| So...to create a 30 min sine wave, that can be phased from a higher setting, to a lower, and maybe back up again, what will I need as low/high settings? for example? |
Simply (I've covered all this before, so go back and check if you are not sure about something);
1 - Create you base wave of 30 minutes
2 - Set the highest and lowest frequencies you wish to use on the settings menu
3 - Draw the graph, as required and then hit 'OK'
4 - Save the resultant file.
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