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beetle · Location: USA

I'm now toying around with the idea of putting the mp3 versions of wav files on the same CD. That way, if you ever need to make mp3's from a track, it's already done for you on your music CD-R.

I thought of this when deciding on how best to proceed with producing music CD-R demoes for a songwriter/musician.

RobertM · Posted - Fri Jul 20, 2001 11:22 am

But will these discs play on conventional CD audio equipment? Or only from CD-ROM drives?

beetle · Location: USA

Yup! I checked it.

motorhead_6 · Posted - Fri Jul 20, 2001 4:45 pm

I didnt want to make a new topic just for this but its not too far off topic. If you convert a .wav file to .mp3 I know that there will be some degree of degradation of sound quality. My question is when you convert that .mp3 file back to a .wav file is that new .wav file going to be the same quality as the origional .wav file?

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

beetle · Location: USA

I knew that either everyone would get this wrong or I didn't explain it well enough!

I meant that you could burn the original UNCOMPRESSED wav file onto the CD-R, and add the mp3's to it as data files as an extra bonus. It is called an "Extra" CD.

A CD player would not play the mp3's, they wouldn't even be recognized on a regular CD player, but a DVD, portable, or any other device that can play mp3's could play both.

The reason for the idea is simply that if you want to make an mp3 (or .wma for that matter) of wav files on the CD-R, you wouldn't have to go through the trouble because it's already there!

Edited by - beetle on 07/20/2001 8:36:09 PM

clintfan · Location: USA

How much extra CDR space are you allowed to use for data files? Is there a hard limit?

For example, if you burned, say, 37 minutes (about half) of a 74-minute CDR, does that mean you can use the remaining space to store 325 Mbyte of data files (half of 650)? Just curious...

-clintfan

Teddy G. · Posted - Sat Jul 21, 2001 7:49 pm

Beetle, what is your CD burning software?

motorhead_6 · Posted - Sat Jul 21, 2001 10:22 pm

I took a .wav file and converted it to .mp3 then back to .wav and back and forth about 5 more times. I could tell the difference but the weird thing is the one that had been converted back and forth 5 times sounded better. Im sure that is only with the particular cut I did it with. Can you guys tell me if it matters what speed you burn the cd at? For sound quality I mean.

beetle · Location: USA

Teddy, I use CD Creator 4.

Motorhead, theoretically, faster is better and there should be no difference in sound quality no matter what speed you burn at. It's noy good to resave an mp3. You will degrade the sound.

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

beetle · Location: USA

Nope. Not to reprise the discussion here, I always said that 1x was more prone to errors.

Personally, I burn at either 2x or 4x.

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

clothesburner · Location: USA

Beetle, that is totally a great idea although it doesn't sound like many people understood what you were saying. May I? Folks, all our friend here, Beetle, is saying is that when you burn files to disc burn both a wav. file and an mp3. For instance, if the title of the song is "Go F Yourself," burn "Go F Yourself" as a wav. file and then as an mp3, one right after the other. If ever you need the mp3 it's already there, and when you go to play your cd on your stereo, it'll just play the wav. files and skip over the mp3.

beetle · Location: USA

Actually, you would want to put all of the non-wav files on AFTER all of the wav files, but, yes, that is EXACTLY what I meant! Thanks!

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:18 am

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Jul 25, 2001 5:24 am

The idea is good and it's already used by manufacturers. You usually have the regular program in wav format and usually an additional track with video that can't be played on your regular CD player.

If I understand it the right way and if you are using CD Creator X then you will choose to burn a disc with wav files and data files (mp3).

My only question is how the regular CD player will react when it will detect the datafile?

As for the burning speed let's just tell the readers of this forum that 2X or 4X is less vulnerable to errors than higher speeds.

RobertM · Posted - Wed Jul 25, 2001 6:35 am

Beetle, thanks for bringing this topic up. I'm going to enjoy my new-found ability to burn CD-Extras! Last night I burned a CD with all of the WAV files, then added the CD artwork (which I created) as a data file after the music. Worked great, and the CD player and car CD are completely unaware that the data was there, but I can get at it with the PC. Pretty cool!

But... another question...

This caused me to think of something I did a while ago with a pre-recorded CD of mine: I didn't like one of the tracks, in fact it disrupted the whole musical experience of the CD because the offending track was of a different music style, at a different tempo and amplitude. It was a "bonus" track added in addition to what was included on the LP or cassette -- not much of a bonus in my opinion. So I re-recorded the CD, leaving out that track, but I wasn't completely happy with that approach. Sure, I still have the original CD, and I can get at that track if I want to, but I really would have preferred to keep all of the tracks together, available to be played if I was feeling in a curioius (masochistic?) mood. I just wanted it to avoid playing THAT track automatically. What I would have liked to do was to configure the CD so that only the first x tracks would register and play automatically. Any additional tracks (beyond x) could be accessed by specifically punching in the track number in excess of x. Sort of like a side-1/side-2 thing. It works great on my PC. I burned a disc with a series of WAV files, then added an additional WAV file in the data section of the CD-Extra. Sure enough, media player only finds the first bunch of wav files, and I can play the last file by double clicking on it specifically. Any thoughts on achieveing this in a conventional CD player?

Second question...

What about the whole "redbook/orangebook" thing? Does the CD-Extra adhere to the redbook standard entirely (or at all!) for the first WAV section of the disc, or are there potential problems on the horizon. Seems to work fine for me so far.

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Jul 25, 2001 7:14 am

jonrose · Location: USA

No, uru, not necessarily. It doesn't really ever detect the datafile. CD extra doesn't seem to affect plain "vanilla" CD players very much, if at all - if they don't understand CD-X, they just play the first section of the disk (which should be CD-A compliant). Seems to work fine, even with some *really* old players that I have here for testing purposes. The first part of the disk MUST be audio, though.

All the best... -Jon
:-)

Edited by - jonrose on 07/26/2001 12:12:42 AM

jester700 · Posted - Wed Jul 25, 2001 7:54 pm

WRT burn speed:

Remember that this technology is always changing - hardware, software, and media. So WHATEVER side you take on the issue, accept the fact that the answers are likely to change over time. Much of the wisdom still quoted was formed in the days of 4x burners & media. It's a whole 'nother ball game now. The wisdom may still be right... or maybe not.

rockindel1 · Posted - Wed Jul 25, 2001 10:59 pm

So do you record in data mode or audio cd mode? just curious --love the idea for putting small quick time clips on cd with my recordings

RobertM · Posted - Thu Jul 26, 2001 5:33 am

Rock, using EZ-CD Creator 4, I started it up as an "Audio CD", then select the drop-down list for the "new" file (top left on menu bar) selecting "CD-Extra". I was presented with a folder list in the left pane window, and I could drag-and-drop the initial batch of WAV files to the first folder, and any other stuff -- of any format -- to a subsequent folder. The folders have been given default names, and there are some pre-defined files in the folders. I haven't looked into what those are yet, so I just left them alone.

Hope this helps.

urumuqi74 · Posted - Thu Jul 26, 2001 8:25 am

Winch · Posted - Thu Jul 26, 2001 10:47 am

Hmmm interesting idea here, especially saving the art work, maybe lyrics etc. I have several other files of such stuff that I have to keep coordinated. Besides burning a WAV CD I've been saving every song as MP3 under a folder of the album name, then when I get enough albums on HD I burn an MP3 CD. It's great at work where I can put 12 hours of music in with one CD. Also I've been looking at an AIWA car stereo that plays MP3 (CD/RW too!).
On the speed topic, not y'all got me wondering. I am just about to replace my 2x with a Sony 8x. I've gotten spoiled using the USB 4x I bought for my daughter to take to college. It goes away in 3 weeks!

urumuqi74 · Posted - Thu Jul 26, 2001 11:08 am

jonrose · Location: USA

They *are* handy on long trips!
:-)

beetle · Location: USA

Nope, the CD-xtras are NOT red-book standard.

I will not do this on critical burns. Bummer!

jonrose · Location: USA

Well, you know, if these are just for your own use, beetle, it probably won't matter. I get the impression you wanted to be able to have someone else use these though...

;-)

Best... -Jon

urumuqi74 · Posted - Thu Jul 26, 2001 6:07 pm

For those of you having easy creator rev. x, it appears that you can burn the CD with the sound files first followed by the data files using the CD extra CD configuration.

What the documentation omits to say is that you better put your MP3s in the data section. If not you will use a lot of disc space for nothing!!!