Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
|
 Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 2:54 pm
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| Hmm... I checked a mid-July price this morning, and that's what I quoted. |
I just did another check - around 75 Euros return on the 15th and 100 Euros on the 20th (plus taxes, etc., of course) - which just goes to show you have to pick your way through their pricing very carefully
| SteveG wrote: |
For some strange reason, anything before that is very expensive. I'm not sure if this is a seasonal thing, or just early booking./quote]
I don't know the reason. In Spain, you can't book a cheap flight at the beginning of August or September. because the whole country goes on holiday for that month - there's a rumour they turn the lights out in the big cities because they're so deserted! Maybe something similar in Holland, perhaps yazmin might know the reason for this?
|
|
VoodooRadio
Location: USA
Posts: 3971
|
|
Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:14 pm
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Obviously they can get away with charging more close to a flight departure - isn't this what all airlines do now? |
On the other hand, there's some pretty sweet "deals" to be had at flight time. All legal of course! While in the military, stationed in Virginia, I would book a "week-end special" (round trip from Norfolk to New York) for a whopping $79. The important things was to book it on a Friday after payday, when most folks were wanting to go home (and had the money). When the flight date arrived, show up at the airport and sit in the terminal and wait on the flight. They would start boarding sections (1st class, rows so-and-so, etc) at that point they would come on the speaker and offer a ticket redemption for those who were willing to turn over their ticket for "stand-by" passengers. The redemption was a trade for another flight (round trip) of your choice for a later date. I would trade in my $79 dollar "week-end special" and get a voucher for a round-trip to Houston (that would normally run about $500 at the time). All it cost was $79 and a couple of hours of my time on a Friday evening! 
_________________
I said Good Day!
Voodoo
 |
|
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 3:17 pm
|
|
|
I tried 15th July as a pair of one-way journeys, one adult, and got the following:
Remember, being flexible over your date and time of travel may well save you money. Remember, all our fares are flexible...
Fares shown on this page are one-way, excluding taxes and fees, and all times are local.
Don't forget we also fly to London Luton from Amsterdam
OUTBOUND
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5102
departs Amsterdam at 09:30, arrives London Gatwick at 09:45
flexible web fare 47.49 EUR (phone fare 52.49 EUR)
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5106
departs Amsterdam at 16:55, arrives London Gatwick at 17:05
flexible web fare 47.49 EUR (phone fare 52.49 EUR)
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5108
departs Amsterdam at 19:10, arrives London Gatwick at 19:25
flexible web fare 39.99 EUR (phone fare 44.99 EUR)
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5124
departs Amsterdam at 20:40, arrives London Gatwick at 20:50
flexible web fare 39.99 EUR (phone fare 44.99 EUR)
RETURN
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5101
departs London Gatwick at 06:15, arrives Amsterdam at 08:30
flexible web fare 24.65 EUR (phone fare 29.65 EUR)
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5103
departs London Gatwick at 10:20, arrives Amsterdam at 12:30
flexible web fare 44.65 EUR (phone fare 49.65 EUR)
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5107
departs London Gatwick at 16:35, arrives Amsterdam at 18:45
flexible web fare 32.15 EUR (phone fare 37.15 EUR)
Tuesday 15 July, flight 5109
departs London Gatwick at 18:40, arrives Amsterdam at 20:50
flexible web fare 32.15 EUR (phone fare 37.15 EUR)[/list:e39c67133b]So if you time it right, you should be able to do the round trip for about 80 Euros (plus tax, of course). I still think it's do-able, and going to save some money.
_________________
 |
|
|
|
ozpeter
Location: Australia
Posts: 3200
|
|
Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 6:32 pm
|
|
|
I was once asked to go to Amsterdam (from London, not Melbourne!) for a day to make a recording, skimmed the cheap flight ads and quoted 250 pounds sterling inc. costs for the whole thing. Then discovered that the only available ticket was about 240 pounds - and that on a turboprop flight that had my ears in poor order for the work. Some you win, some you don't.....
- Ozpeter
|
|
Makedon
Posts: 31
|
|
Posted - Sun Jun 29, 2003 10:10 pm
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| Makedon wrote: |
Don't worry about that at all. Just get a simple plug converter and you would be able to use the 240V (British) in any Europen country (220V). And vice-versa.
If it's a 120V, you will need a different adapter/converter. I do have here equipment with 120, 220 and 240V. They all work fine together, with the appropriate adapters/converters. |
This is not true. In the 20/20 manual specification it says:
Power Requirements:
Factory programmedfor either 120V~ 60Hz,
220-240V~ 50/60Hz or 100V~ 50/60Hz, 200VA;
Power via detachable 3 circuit IEC type linecord (my bold)[/list:bedfe39140]but speakers bought in the UK will work fine in Holland - despite what look like differences, the mains supplies are the same - it's just the tolerances that make it look different. In fact there is a load-sharing arrangement between the UK and the continent - one helps the other when neccessary. There's a large 2-way feed under the channel.
| Quote: |
| P.S. Regarding the trip to England, check if EasyJet is still around. They use to have Amsterdam-London for about $20 (yes, that's twenty dollars!). |
They are still around, but won't do the trip that cheaply any more. They will fly you from Schipol to Gatwick for about 40 Euros each way on the same day. They will also fly you to Luton, which is technically a London airport, but is stuck out in the middle of nowhere. The nearest DV to Luton is in Barnett, and it's not an easy journey at all.
The Gatwick route is still the one I'd go for. And I did make a mistake - it's not Coulsdon station, it's Purley Oaks. There appear to be plenty of trains that will do this journey directly.
|
What do you mean it's not true? Which part? What I said about the adapters/converters is exactly what you quote from the manual. You DON'T need an adapter to use British gear in Europe, just a cheap 3 to 2 plug converter (check Tandy;)). I've done that for years with ton's of equipment in Europe. Anyway...
I lived in London for a number of years and flew with EasyJet to Glasgow from Luton (I think it was 1995). It was only 30 pounds, a shocking price at the time. Who would have thought that a few years later going from central London to Luton will cost you more than flying to Vienna or Amsterdam. The price of the "progress".
Which reminds of the joke when the philosophers of the world had a conference in Chicago. When the conference finished, a Western (European) and Eastern (Indian) share a taxi on the way to the O'Hara airport, to go home. And they talk (wise things, of course;)).
The Western philosopher:
"Don't you love the new technology? You, for instance, will be in India in twelve hours, and I'll be in Europe in seven hours."
The Eastern philosopher:
"Yes, that is great. But we need to get to the airport first. We are already three hours in this taxi and still, there is no sign of the airport..."
Makedon
|
|
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Mon Jun 30, 2003 10:44 am
|
|
|
| Makedon wrote: |
What do you mean it's not true? Which part? What I said about the adapters/converters is exactly what you quote from the manual. You DON'T need an adapter to use British gear in Europe, just a cheap 3 to 2 plug converter (check Tandy;)). I've done that for years with ton's of equipment in Europe. Anyway...
|
The bit where you said
| Quote: |
| If it's a 120V, you will need a different adapter/converter. |
You can't just use an adaptor to convert 110v factory programmed equipment to run on 240v UK mains supplies. And Tandy haven't existed at all for years now. The entire chain of 250+ stores got taken over by Carphone Warehouse, who just wanted the real-estate. Fortunately Dixons, Comet, Currys, Maplin, etc etc still sell the adapors. But they won't help with 110v kit.
_________________
|
|
|
|
yazmin
Posts: 43
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:07 am
|
|
|
Thanks for the extensive info,
I'm still not sure about the mains differences.
What standard does US-equipment use ?
So if my country uses 220-240v 50Hz is it doable ?
| Graeme wrote: |
| I did a quick search on a couple of European suppliers of Event products (surprisingly less of these than I expected) and the best price I could find was 1,190 Euros, in Germany - not much of a difference and no saving at all by the time you've paid the transport costs from there to you. |
You'd be surprised,
I bought a pair of very good condition second hand yamaha NS-10Ms
from Germany/Europe last march,
I know the events are about 1.5 the size of the yamaha's ,
but shipping only costed me, insured, less then 20 euro
(x 0.95 for equivalent in US$), shipped UPS !!
yazmin
_________________
what happens when you get scared half to death -twice? |
|
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 11:24 am
|
|
|
| yazmin wrote: |
I'm still not sure about the mains differences.
What standard does US-equipment use ?
So if my country uses 220-240v 50Hz is it doable ?
|
America uses nominally 120V 60Hz. But don't worry - the speakers you buy in Europe will already be preconfigured for European mains supplies.
_________________
|
|
|
|
yazmin
Posts: 43
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:04 pm
|
|
|
I'm planning on buying them from the US,
that would save me about 200$ even after
taxes and shipping.
I guess there's no way around that 120 for the US,
and 220-240v difference where i live.
This is real stupid, or i'm just asking stupid questions,
Do those speakers realy have to be sooo expensive,
and all this hassle makes me wonder what in ...s name
i'm still doing persuing these monitors.
yazmin
_________________
what happens when you get scared half to death -twice? |
|
|
|
VoodooRadio
Location: USA
Posts: 3971
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 12:23 pm
|
|
|
| Quote: |
| Do those speakers realy have to be sooo expensive |
Actually that's not a bad price for the quality in return. Have a good look at Meyer's, Westlake Audio, Genelec, P.A.S. and you'll see what expensive is. 
_________________
I said Good Day!
Voodoo
|
|
|
|
Makedon
Posts: 31
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:01 pm
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| Makedon wrote: |
What do you mean it's not true? Which part? What I said about the adapters/converters is exactly what you quote from the manual. You DON'T need an adapter to use British gear in Europe, just a cheap 3 to 2 plug converter (check Tandy;)). I've done that for years with ton's of equipment in Europe. Anyway...
|
The bit where you said
| Quote: |
| If it's a 120V, you will need a different adapter/converter. |
You can't just use an adaptor to convert 110v factory programmed equipment to run on 240v UK mains supplies. And Tandy haven't existed at all for years now. The entire chain of 250+ stores got taken over by Carphone Warehouse, who just wanted the real-estate. Fortunately Dixons, Comet, Currys, Maplin, etc etc still sell the adapors. But they won't help with 110v kit.
|
What are you talking about? Why are you confusing everybody?
1. Yazmin wanted to know if he can use the 240V speakers in Holland. Yes, he can. And he doesn't need a special converter for that, only a different plug. He can buy this simple plug at Tandy, or Mandy, or Shmandy....whatever. Or even at the airport. That's all.
2. If he want's to by the speakers from the US, he can still use them, but he needs a special converter for that - one which will convert the 120V to 220V. I don't know where he can buy that converter in Holland, but I presume it shouldn't be that difficult to find one.
3. If you want to use equipment with 120, 220 and 240V together (on either side of the Atlantic), you will need an Up/Down Converter (Chateau in my case) with the appropriate plugs.
Now, you can split hear and run this tread for another year (as you most probably will), but as far as I am concern, that's all there is to it.
M.
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:25 pm
|
|
|
| Makedon wrote: |
1. Yazmin wanted to know if he can use the 240V speakers in Holland. Yes, he can. And he doesn't need a special converter for that, only a different plug. He can buy this simple plug at Tandy, or Mandy, or Shmandy....whatever. Or even at the airport. That's all.
2. If he want's to by the speakers from the US, he can still use them, but he needs a special converter for that - one which will convert the 120V to 220V. I don't know where he can buy that converter in Holland, but I presume it shouldn't be that difficult to find one.
|
No, wromg again. You order them set to 240v. If you do an overseas order to the US, you can specify exactly what you want, and that is what will be supplied - this is not a problem as a rule. So you don't need a converter. You don't need a silly adaptor either, because these speakers have a IEC plugs on the back - you just use your normal local IEC mains leads with them - these are ubiquitous.
Oh, and unless I am very much mistaken, Yasmin is female!
_________________
|
|
|
|
yazmin
Posts: 43
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 2:37 pm
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| Makedon wrote: |
| Oh, and unless I am very much mistaken, Yasmin is female! |
yep!
Oh, and i just mailed the retailer in NewYork and asked if they could just check with Event and provide me proper programmed units for european standards,
no hassle, and (for some reason) i hate adapters.
yazmin
_________________
what happens when you get scared half to death -twice? |
|
|
|
Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
|
|
Posted - Tue Jul 01, 2003 4:50 pm
|
|
|
All this talk about convertors is making me giddy. Provided the equipment isn't frequency conscious (and this sort of thing isn't) all you need is a suitably rated 1:2 transformer. Turn it round the other way and you can run European kit on USA supplies.
I must half a dozen or more of these things here - you can buy them at any decent DIY or electrical supply store. I've got a huge one, bought from a building material supplier to run the CD repair machines. In most countries where 220/240 is the normal supply, there is legislation that power tools on building sites must run from 110v (keeps the mortality rate down) so big isolation transformers are as common as muck in the trade.
As for 'factory programming' - well, it sounds smart, but I doubt if it's much more than a wire link on the internal transformer.
Anyway, I've no doubt the supplier will set it to what is required before shipping, so that's the best option.
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 3:49 am
|
|
|
| Graeme wrote: |
| In most countries where 220/240 is the normal supply, there is legislation that power tools on building sites must run from 110v (keeps the mortality rate down) so big isolation transformers are as common as muck in the trade. |
I've always thought that the voltage argument was a complete myth! The basic idea is completely flawed, because you end up with twice as much current flowing, and having that much current in that particular voltage range is just about as dangerous as you can get as far as the human body is concerned. The only real saving grace is that usually, the secondaries are completely isolated, including ground isolation, so that you will only get a tingle (leakage current) if you grab a live wire whilst hanging on to a scaffold pole. You may recall a little bon mot which goes 'it's the volts that jolts, but the mils that kills' - and it ain't wrong!
| Quote: |
| As for 'factory programming' - well, it sounds smart, but I doubt if it's much more than a wire link on the internal transformer. |
I have a feeling that they are likely to use a switchmode power supply now in these. It's certainly a link of some sort, though. I don't know, but I suspect that the reason that this is a factory setting is because it is internal, and in a sealed box. The moment you break that seal, you've blown the cabinet performance guarantee. There are some 120/240v switches that are built into IEC chassis mount plugs, but usually, these aren't airtight, and don't provide the correct switching facility anyway. But this could be completely wrong, of course - I've never studied the back of one of these monitors in detail. Zemlin might know...
_________________
|
|
|
|
Mark T
Location: Norway
Posts: 890
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 4:38 am
|
|
|
And I'm just sitting here remembering Coulsdon 29 years ago when my wife was just an 18 year old blonde Norwegian Au Pair girl staying with a family in Coulsdon. Aaah those were the days ;)
_________________
Mark 
nil desperandum - nunc est bibendum |
|
|
|
Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:22 am
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| I've always thought that the voltage argument was a complete myth! |
Oh yes, it is! As you say, it's the isolation which is the important factor. However, we are talking about legislation here - and I doubt if anyone actually involved in drawing it knew so much as Ohms Law  .
| SteveG wrote: |
| I have a feeling that they are likely to use a switchmode power supply now in these. It's certainly a link of some sort, though. |
Good point - hadn't thuought of that possibility. I'm not really a fan of powered monitors, so I've never owned any (unless you count ELS's and they certainly weren't swithched mode ).
However, I am sure it's basically an uncomplicated procedure to change one voltage for the other - although doing so might well invalidate the warranty. On the other hand, I can't see yazmin taking them back anyway.
|
|
ozpeter
Location: Australia
Posts: 3200
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:25 am
|
|
|
... the same year I was roaring through there on my motorbike on my way to see mine working in a hospital a little south... (well, the first Mrs Oz, anyway).
Just think how this forum would have changed had our paths met, literally, Mark! X(
- Ozpeter
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 5:52 am
|
|
|
| ozpeter wrote: |
Just think how this forum would have changed had our paths met, literally, Mark!  |
I don't know why, but this suddenly put me in mind of the arguments about the collision between an immovable object, and one with irresistable force... 
_________________
|
|
|
|
djwayne
Location: USA
Posts: 583
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:06 am
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| Graeme wrote: |
| In most countries where 220/240 is the normal supply, there is legislation that power tools on building sites must run from 110v (keeps the mortality rate down) so big isolation transformers are as common as muck in the trade. |
I've always thought that the voltage argument was a complete myth! The basic idea is completely flawed, because you end up with twice as much current flowing, and having that much current in that particular voltage range is just about as dangerous as you can get as far as the human body is concerned. The only real saving grace is that usually, the secondaries are completely isolated, including ground isolation, so that you will only get a tingle (leakage current) if you grab a live wire whilst hanging on to a scaffold pole. You may recall a little bon mot which goes 'it's the volts that jolts, but the mils that kills' - and it ain't wrong"
Well according to OSHA, it's not the voltage or current that kills you, it's the amount of time that the current is going thru you that does you in. You may be able to survive a short exposure to a shock, but a long exposure can be deadly. To see an example of this, imagine taking a lighter and light it, run your hand thru the flame quickly you probably won't even notice the heat. If you were to hold your hand in the flame for a few seconds, you'd get a burn. The longer you hold it there, the worse the burn gets. It's this theory that is the basic idea behing GFI outlets. The circuitry is designed to cutoff the electricity, in the event the GFI notices a sudden change in current flow to gound. The point is to cut off the electricity as soon as possible, to save lives. Both 110 vac or 220 vac can kill you under certain circumstances.
|
|
|
|
SteveG
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 6695
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 6:44 am
|
|
|
The whole point is that you could stand a high voltage, low current shock for rather longer than a lower voltage, higher current one. It's still a myth!
It's certainly true that either form of supply can, and will kill you if you abuse it - all I was suggesting is that the reasoning behind the transformation to 110v wasn't really the voltage change at all, but the insulation argument, which is much stronger.
One slightly better argument that I heard was that having lower-voltage power tools prevents construction workers from nicking them and selling them to their mates, because they need a transformer to use them. But I think that the real reason for the voltage change requirement, ceretainly in the UK and Europe, is that it forces users to use an isolation transformer - otherwise they'd just wire them straight into the mains, because people will always go for the easiest answer, even if it isn't particularly safe.
_________________
|
|
|
|
Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 10:33 am
|
|
|
| SteveG wrote: |
| One slightly better argument that I heard was that having lower-voltage power tools prevents construction workers from nicking them and selling them to their mates, because they need a transformer to use them. |
:D
It's amazing how many 110v tools turn up at boot fairs, etc. I wonder where they all came from?
| SteveG wrote: |
| But I think that the real reason for the voltage change requirement, ceretainly in the UK and Europe, is that it forces users to use an isolation transformer - otherwise they'd just wire them straight into the mains, because people will always go for the easiest answer, even if it isn't particularly safe. |
Since I have little faith in the sort of committees which come up with these things, I'd hesitate to categorically state that was their reasoning. However, be it by intent or accident, it has produced the right end result. You could never persuade a small building company to invest in a box of 1:1 isolation transformers, but the legislation is such they are forced to.
|
|
djwayne
Location: USA
Posts: 583
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:00 am
|
|
|
|
Regarding small power tools. Here in the states, battery operated tools have taken over, and tools with any cords are antiquated. I've had a 12 volt drill for years and love it. Even the small electric screwdrivers are very handy for continous work. They have plenty of power and no chance of getting shocked by them. Once you get into the habit of charging your batteries, you like the idea of cordless.
|
|
Graeme
Member
Location: Spain
Posts: 4663
|
|
Posted - Wed Jul 02, 2003 11:48 am
|
|
|
| djwayne wrote: |
| Regarding small power tools. Here in the states, battery operated tools have taken over, and tools with any cords are antiquated. I've had a 12 volt drill for years and love it. Even the small electric screwdrivers are very handy for continous work. They have plenty of power and no chance of getting shocked by them. Once you get into the habit of charging your batteries, you like the idea of cordless. |
We're not so far behind the USA that we haven't got battery operated tools . Yes they are useful, I have two or three myself, but they don't really stand up to the wear and tear of a busy construction site (and the batteries always run flat at a critical moment).
More importantly, good battery tools are expensive and highly stealable. I think this is a major reason why we don't see more of them on commercial construction projects - they'd need constant replacement!
|
|
| |
 Topic 
|
|
Powered by phpBB 2.0.11 © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
|
All Forums
Event prices
. So, unless yazmin wants a holiday in the UK, it's not really an answer to the problem (plus trying to get a pair of weighty monitors on a plane as hand luggage could be a lot of fun).