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arnie · Location: USA

Hey guys/gals,

I'm wondering if anybody on this forum has transitioned from Saw Pro to Cool Edit Pro. I'm figuring certain things out. However I'm having problems trying to make edit list files(Saw Pro terms), on Cool Edit Pro 2.0. For example, when I do imaging, I have my effects I use from imaging effects cds on hard drive. I have them in an edit list file and all individualy regioned out on Saw Pro. So I need to figure out how to do what I've done on Saw Pro and do that on Cool Edit Pro 2.0. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Please e-mail me if you could. Again thanks in advance to any fellow producer that could help me out.

Take care
Arnie "creative Services Director"
Next Media

tomcat · Location: USA

I'm not sure if this is exactly what you mean, but it might help. I also keep my imaging effects on my hard drive. Then, when I need one while (or "whilst" for our UK friends) I'm mid-project, I hit "Insert" (in multi-track view), select "wave from file," and find the effect I need. You can preview them by having "auto play" checked. Hit "open" when you find what you want, and it will be inserted into your project at the current cursor location. I always right-click on new file and select "convert to unique copy" so if I do any transformations on the selected wave, the original stays "original." Hope this helps. I opted not to e-mail since this info may be usefull to others.

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada

That's how I'd do it in 1.2, but since we're talking 2.0 here, could you not use the Organizer Window to get much the same effect?

tomcat · Location: USA

Craig-
I'm also using CEP2 -- guess I'm stuck in my old ways. After I read your post, I tried it using the Organizer Window. It doesn't really seem to be any more convenient than just inserting the file. Am I missing something? Are there specific advantages to doing it with the Organizer Window? Or is it (as with many Cool Edit things) just another way?

nhaukap · Location: USA

The CEP "session" is essentially the equivlalent of the SAW "edit list", and unfortunately (as you likely already figured out, Arnie), you can't open your existing SAW edit lists directly into CoolEdit Pro. So you'll have to re-construct your edit lists from scratch, using the individual production elements that you already have on your hard drive. Create a new session in CEP, use the Open Wave or Insert Wave from File, insert them into your multitrack session, and recreate your "layout" to match that of your edit list. Apply your fx, save your session, mixdown, etc as needed. Sorry, there's no easier way to do it. It'll take some time and effort, but it's a pretty good way to start the CEP learning process and grasp some of the fundamentals of how it works.

I got thrown into the deep end with SAW Pro for my very first exposure to digital audio editing, and it was my frustration in trying to learn how to use that program that led me to immediately seek out a better/easier to use alternative.

And that, boys and girls, is how I found CoolEdit Pro!

arnie · Location: USA

Thanks guys for the help you have provided. I'm still confused as can be, but I have faith in my self. So from what I can figure from you're telling me is this here. Actually layout the individual wave files onto the cep multi track. then save the session as what cd it's located on. But then do you make cue points from the multri track so you can label each effect so you know what they are?

EG: HIT1, BEEP1, REWIND1, WARP1, etc..

I don't mind recreating my audio files, I just need to know how to start out. I'm ready to pull hair out of my head. I hope by April, I'll be close to have CEP figured out. I'm so used to Saw Pro, that my mind goes blank when I attempt something on CEP. Thanks again for any further help or advice you could provide. You're all kind and helpfull producers. Again thank you very much for your time.

Take care,
Arnie

nhaukap · Location: USA

You won't have to re-create your audio files themselves (the wavs or mp3s you've gathered), but you will have to use those files to build a "copy" of your SAW edit list in CoolEdit, and then save that as a session.

You've touched on one of the most tedious things about producing radio imaging: managing the filenames for the hundreds and hundreds of production elements we accumulate in our digital audio libraries. It's nice to be able to refer to your individual audio files (like the HIT1, BEEP1, WARP1, etc that you refer to) by giving them semi-relevant and meaningful Windows file names like that (hit1.wav, beep1.wav, warp1.mp3, etc), but when you have two or three thousand (or more) phasers, sweepers, zaps, zings, SFX, music beds, shouts, drop-ins, etc, etc, etc on your hard drive (or network server in my case)...well, giving them all meaningful names is impossible. So for the most part, I don't even try. When I rip a CD of production elements or music beds, for example, I name each file using a short version of the CD name that I can recognize plus the track number. Swift and easy, but it's pretty tough to tell by sight what's what when you have a multitrack session filled with 10 or 20 elements.

What I try to do is to keep as much space, visually, between the different elements as I can on the multitrack screen, by spreading things out over as many different tracks as I can fit on one screenful. More specifically, keep elements that are right "next" to each other audio-wise (the ones that follow each other while your mix is playing) on different tracks. For me, this makes it a little easier to visually distinguish one element from the next, making it easier to select/move/copy/remove/etc a given bit of audio when I need to. It can also be helpful to name the tracks themselves to give you a clue as to what's on that track (where it says Track 1, Track 2, etc on the left side of your screen - you can edit that track name), but I usually end up moving things up and down and all around so much that track names don't help much. Total lack of discipline on my part, I know. (In CEP 1.2, you can actually relocate entire tracks by right-clicking on the track name and dragging the track up or down, a feature that's extremely handy - and extremely missing from CEP 2.0)

So assuming you already have all of your individual production elements (HIT1, BEEP1, WARP1) on your hard drive as an audio file (wav or mp3 most likely), you bring these elements into your CEP multitrack session, arrange your production, and save your session. Most people will tell you, me among them, that it's helpful and efficient to keep your separate projects organized by folders in some manner, so it's easier to find stuff when you need it. If you check the box that says "Save copies of all associated files" in the lower left corner of the "Save Session" dialog box, CoolEdit will save a new, separate copy of all of the audio files contained in your session - leaving you with TWO versions of these files on your hard drive, probably in different places. If you're long on hard drive space, this can be handy. It's also handy if you tend to move things around on your hard drive a lot, because if you save a session without checking this box, CEP will save just the session data. Your session by itself doesn't contain any actual audio, but rather "pointers" to the audio files contianed that session. If you save a session and then move one or any of the audio files that's a part of that session to a different location on your hard drive, CEP won't be able to fully open your session, and you'll have to direct it to the file's new location to get your entire session back. This is where file organization really pays off.

What's worked best for me is to keep all of my individual audio files/production elements in one place, orgainzed in folders by name or type, and I don't move those files around, ever, if I can avoid it. This way my sessions always remain "intact" and I don't have to hunt around for files. As I add audio to the library, I put it all in that same orgainized repository of audio, so CEP can always locate the files it needs in any given session I'm opening.

Sorry so long winded...are things getting any clearer?

Talkmeup · Location: USA

As a huge fan of CEP, it kills me that the station engineer says that he won't recommend switching to CEP 2, his excuse "SAW's more stable, doesn't use as much memory, and it still comes on a floppy!"
Any ideas on what I can bring to the big boss to counter this? I can't stand using SAW... I know that it doesn't even have tech support anymore, and that it's been discontinued, but I can't seem to reach the higher ups with my reasoning...

nhaukap · Location: USA

Well...on those 3 particular points, he's right - although I'd add an asterisk with regard to CEP 2's stability (some people seem to be able to use it worry free, others are still having occasional glitches). The problem with radio engineers is they often tend to be overly pragmatic about stuff such as this, and always seem to have a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality about so many things. Since he's not the one actually using the software to do his job, he probably feels like playing it safe is the better option.

Not knowing exactly what the heiercarcy of authority is like at your station, here's how I'd be looking at it: the people using the software should be the ones making the decision. Of course, with SAWs more modest system requirements, if your PC isn't beefy enough to run CEP 2 comfortably, the engineer may end up with some legitimate concerns if he has to get a new PC up and running.

SAW is a discontinued product. There will never be user support. Never an upgrade. Never any new features to make your job easier. CEP, on the other hand, offers all those things, along with a program that's easier to learn and use (my opinion, I guess). If the cost of switching to CEP isn't the real issue at hand (which is still imminently affordable, even for the full version), then I'd push hard for letting the users make the decision. Get the demo, let everyone try it, get a consensus opinion, maybe even show your engineer some of the ways CEP is superior to SAW.

Oh - and tell him the floppy disc is dead, too...welcome to 2003!

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada

More than anything else, the engineer either doesn't want to spend the money or doesn't have any money to spend. Neither of which are good for the producer in the long or short term. If the station I was working for couldn't or wouldn't change out of dead software, to software that will do much more than SAW, and is so affordable ... I mean 2.0 is an outrageous deal ... I'd be getting a tape together and mailing out packages to get a new gig. Their narrowness of mind would be telling me something, and that would be to start looking out for my own interests as they certainly aren't going to do if for me.

If they are saying that they don't want to change to 2.0 because of stability, and their waiting for the first update (oh Syntrillium? There's a theme here!), that's another story. I've had encounters with 2.0 bugs, and the better the host computer, the less the bugs are an issue. If your current computer and sound card will suffice with CEP, then it's up to the producer to be patient for the 2.0 update and then pester the engineer again. If they don't have the money to upgrade the computer sufficiently, then see above.

Radio is a business here to make money, and we shouldn't have a problem with that. There are demands on income, and it's OK if the station has to plan ahead for Production upgrades. You should be aware of the timeline on what they are planning, and realise that if they ahve to swap out the transmitter first before they upgrade production, that makes sense in the big picture. You really should be aware of what they are planning for production and when they are planning to do it though.

Radio production is where the station's money is made ... we are the bottom of the funnel, the sausage factory with just a little less blood. As radio producers we are the "Executioners" who make things happen. To do that we need tools ... looking at the sausage factory we need sharp tools. I can cut up the meat better with a new sharp knife that has an ergonomic handle rather than the old dull knife where the handle is held together with masking tape. Oh yeah, the new knife is a lot less than what you paid when you bought the old knife, but still fits in the same holder. Oh yeah, there's forums like this one that are chock-a-block with nifty ideas on how to cut up the meat with fewer knife strokes so you can spend more time getting the other ingredients just right, or how to keep those annoying gristly bits out of the sausage. You'll then have sausage of higher quality that people in the supermarket will pay more for.

My appologies to any PETA members or vegetarians who got grossed out by the above.

tomcat · Location: USA

Man, Craig, you really love that "sausage factory" analogy, don't you!

Craig Jackman · Location: Canada

These days, it feels really appropriate. If you've got a better one hit me with it. I was reading the previous post back, and breakfast just wasn't sitting well.

... besides, I like sausage. In the summer, fresh off the BBQ with a little cole slaw and some beer, there's nothing better on my deck!