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mdsh Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9	Posted - Sun Feb 02, 2003 4:55 pm  I'm having a real problems recording in CRP2.0. If I make a recording at, say, 30 seconds into a session on track 1 I now cannot make another recording before it on the same track. The only way I can see to do it is to select the area before the recording and insert an "empty wave" then punch in to that block. This seems to be a fundamental and major problem with CEP2.0. It appears to be forcing users of this great multitrack non-linear audio editing software to work in a very linear way. Even more strange is that you cannot do a punch in type operation, seting the start and the end times for a recording, in a section of a track that doesn't already have audio recorded on it. No other multitrack software that I know works like this. Not Cubase nor Vegas etc etc. How come CPE2.0 works so strangely? _________________ -- Mark
zemlin Location: USA Posts: 1156	Posted - Sun Feb 02, 2003 5:42 pm  While I've never had reason to record like that, your message prompted me to play around a little - it is a bit peculiar that after an existing wave block you can plunk your cursor down anywhere and start recording, but before the block you must insert an empty WAV. The workaround, however, doesn't strike me as a major setback. You are not being FORCED to work in a linear fashion, there is just an extra step required. It is a valid point you have raised - and likely one that could be addressed in a future version. I'm not sure I understand your Punch-In on a different track problem. Are you saying that you shouldn't have to select source and arm the track? I have 24 inputs - I don't think the computer should have to decide what to listen to. Quote: No other multitrack software that I know works like this. Not Cubase nor Vegas etc etc. How come CPE2.0 works so strangely? I have a problem with statements like this. By day I am a mechanical engineer - a machine designer. Product design, like software design, is not pursuit of perfection. It is a constant battle of compromises. There are literally hundreds of decisions that must be made every day that impact the final outcome of the product. The designers cannot foresee every possible scenario that a product will be used. Often providing a feature for one person will provide frustration for another. My canned response to "Why did you do it that way?" is "It seemed like a good idea, at the time." Maybe the rather than asking why CEP can't punch in where there is nothing, one could ask "who would want to punch in where there isn't already something?" I use Vegas for recording, and every time it starts a new track because I forgot to arm for record, I have to delete it and back up. I'd rather that part of it work like CEP. If SYNT fixes it for you, they may be breaking it for 10 other people. Don't assume that because someone doesn't see through your eyes that they are an idiot. Open your mind and ask a more diplomatic question. There may be very sound, well thought out reasons for these behaviors - or they may be simple oversights. _________________ Karl Zemlin - www.cheap-tracks.com Host of the World Wide Cool Edit Collaboration Procedural Debate
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Sun Feb 02, 2003 6:17 pm  Okay, let's deal with the punch-in thing... You have to bear in mind that CEP2.0 multitrack screen is actually a non-destructive editor. Okay, it works a little differently. But if you record a blank file, and highlight the section you want to drop into, and hit record, it will drop in and out just fine, albeit without dropping back to play at the end of the section. And without resetting anything, it will allow, and keep, multiple takes on the same section. You can either keep them where they are, or drop them onto other tracks and make up a composite track, which you can submix to a track of its own. And you can shift them around to where you want. All you have to do is enable multiple takes, and you can keep all of your dropins, and do what you like with them. If you do nothing, they sit 'piled up' on the track you recorded them on. It's up to you. But most importantly, just because it doesn't work exactly the same way as other software doesn't mean that it isn't just as flexible. In some ways, it's rather more flexible. In fact, it's so flexible that it will let you record multiple dropins on different tracks simultaneously, with a combination of allowed multiple takes on some tracks and not on others. Just how flexible do you want it to be??? Perhaps if you explored the possibilities a little further, you might begin to understand exactly what's on offer here... _________________
mdsh Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 5:44 am  Hi, thanks for replying. Just a bit about me before I go on. I've been using non-linear audio and video editing software for many many years. I started audio work on "Cubase Audio Falcon" and have used many other systems. I am a professional. This is my job. I've joined a new project where CEP2.0 has been chosen as the tool to use. This isn't a 2-bit operation, the results are broadcast on UK national TV. What I am trying to do is work out our the best way to use CEP2.0 for the task. Quote: it is a bit peculiar that after an existing wave block you can plunk your cursor down anywhere and start recording, but before the block you must insert an empty WAV. Phew. I'm glad that its not that we've been doing something wrong. Its interesting that this 'feature' has shown its head to us on the first project we've done but you've presumably been using CEP for years and never found it a problem. Quote: The workaround, however, doesn't strike me as a major setback. Really? But its such a fundamental problem. I'm not having a go at you, its really good of you to respond, but one cannot record something on a track before something else recorded on that track without inserting a blank wave. That is just ridiculous! Quote: I'm not sure I understand your Punch-In on a different track problem. Ok. The basics are: I have a new session and I want to go into record at 10 seconds into the session and come out of record at 20 seconds into the session. The only accurate way to do that is to insert a blank wave and punch into that. Quote: Maybe the rather than asking why CEP can't punch in where there is nothing, one could ask "who would want to punch in where there isn't already something?" It was a suggestion we had to get around the problem of not being able to record before something else recorded on a track. Quote: Don't assume that because someone doesn't see through your eyes that they are an idiot. Open your mind and ask a more diplomatic question. I did not reallies that I was not being diplomatic, and I apologies unreservedly if I caused any offense. In my eyes I was asking a question and adding a point. Forgive my blunt English. _________________ -- Mark
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 1:26 pm  Quote: Ok. The basics are: I have a new session and I want to go into record at 10 seconds into the session and come out of record at 20 seconds into the session. The only accurate way to do that is to insert a blank wave and punch into that. This is really the crux of your problem, though, isn't it? In CEP logic (and to be quite fair, this is logical), you can have a session with no files in it, and it will play, but because it is a session with no files in it, you can't record in it! Nor will you be able to mix it down - the option will be greyed out. Quite logical - there is nothing to mix. Now, to operate the session with your logic would require that there is always present a file that is as long as the session, that you can record on - anywhere. Even though you don't know how long it may end up being, it's supposed to know? You may have noticed that if you start to record a file in multitrack view, that it 'jumps ahead' in chunks, and terminates at the point where you stop recording, even though the chunk size might have been rather larger a moment earlier. Now this is actually logical - the idea of having a track of non-predetermined variable length is, in the physical logic of files, impossible. Hence the predetermined 'chunks'. Quote: I am a professional. This is my job. I've joined a new project where CEP2.0 has been chosen as the tool to use. This isn't a 2-bit operation, the results are broadcast on UK national TV. Fine. There are actually a large number of professional users of CEP (which has always worked this way) in the UK broadcast (mainly radio) industry. I've trained a few of them. I don't ever recall anybody else having any particular difficulty with CEP's operating concept - if they have, then it's not been reported here, anyway, or privately to me. All I'm suggesting to you is that this is merely a conceptual problem - not a real issue, just a virtual one! _________________
mdsh Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:08 pm  Quote: ...to operate the session with your logic would require that there is always present a file that is as long as the session, that you can record on - anywhere Incorrect. Have you used Cubase? Have you used Avid Media Composer. Have you used Vegas? These programs do not work the way you are telling me is the we CPE must work. I understand that CPE works differently from those three programs, and I can work with the differences, now that I've found that we weren't doing things wrong. But with respect, some of what you have said in your reply is rubbish and unhelpful _________________ -- Mark
ozpeter Location: Australia Posts: 3200	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 3:54 pm  If every package worked the same way, well, you'd only have one available. The CEP way of working seems to me to be entirely reasonable - if you are recording into an existing track before existing material you want to be sure of where it's going to happen, and the changing of colours of the blocks make it clear. Having an empty wave in place makes matters even clearer. The only additional step required apart from highlighting the relevant area, is the 'insert empty wave' step - which you can assign to the key of your choice (press Alt k for assignments) and you're not left with much of a big deal for a seasoned professional, I would have thought. - Ozpeter
mdsh Location: United Kingdom Posts: 9	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 4:42 pm  Ok, No one thinks its illogical that you cannot record something before the last recording on a track without doing a punch in. No one thinks that its strange that you cannot do a punch in to an area on a track where there is no block. No one sees any problem that you cannot punch in across two blocks with nothing between them and expect to fill the gap with the new recording. Fine. I'll just shut up. Consider this thread closed. _________________ -- Mark
pacoloco Location: Mexico Posts: 14	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 6:08 pm  maybay you starting to lern how this works now. excuse my burnt englis to. _________________ i now have the web cam?
ozpeter Location: Australia Posts: 3200	Posted - Mon Feb 03, 2003 9:18 pm  Well, 5012 of 7327 Members have made 68922 posts in 7 forums here - and nobody has ever mentioned this 'fundamental and major problem' before..... (given that there's no previous reference to insert empty wave). BTW, you have an unfortunate spelling mistake in 'non-linear' in your CV. - Ozpeter
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:13 am  mdsh wrote: Quote: ...to operate the session with your logic would require that there is always present a file that is as long as the session, that you can record on - anywhere Incorrect. Have you used Cubase? Have you used Avid Media Composer. Have you used Vegas? These programs do not work the way you are telling me is the we CPE must work. I understand that CPE works differently from those three programs, and I can work with the differences, now that I've found that we weren't doing things wrong. But with respect, some of what you have said in your reply is rubbish and unhelpful At least I explained why it is illogical - you have not explained anything. And the logic I have used is CEP logic, and has nothing to do with Cubase, Avid or Vegas. And you haven't indicated which bits of my reply were 'rubbish' or 'unhelpful'. Try not to shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message... _________________
Cal Location: USA Posts: 577	Posted - Tue Feb 04, 2003 11:38 am  mdsh wrote: I'm having a real problems recording in CRP2.0. Interesting observation here from the post that began this thread -- did no one notice the new acronym for Cool Edit Pro 2.0?? :O Freudian....? _________________ Cal
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Tue Feb 04, 2003 2:29 pm  Yes, I had noticed it. It's the sort of wisecrack you get from people who find it necessary to tell us this: 'Just a bit about me before I go on. I've been using non-linear audio and video editing software for many many years. I started audio work on "Cubase Audio Falcon" and have used many other systems. I am a professional. This is my job. I've joined a new project where CEP2.0 has been chosen as the tool to use. This isn't a 2-bit operation, the results are broadcast on UK national TV. What I am trying to do is work out our the best way to use CEP2.0 for the task.'[/list:1abcb5b338] when it's quite clear that it has no relevance to the answer. And as for finding out about how to use CEP best, then the line 'This seems to be a fundamental and major problem with CEP2.0.'[/list:1abcb5b338] rather gives the game away, doesn't it? Draw your own conclusions... _________________
Gulliver Location: Estonia Posts: 442	Posted - Wed Feb 05, 2003 1:44 am  mdsh wrote: I'm having a real problems recording in CRP2.0. If I make a recording at, say, 30 seconds into a session on track 1 I now cannot make another recording before it on the same track. The only way I can see to do it is to select the area before the recording and insert an "empty wave" then punch in to that block. This seems to be a fundamental and major problem with CEP2.0. It appears to be forcing users of this great multitrack non-linear audio editing software to work in a very linear way. ........... I don't get why this seems so big problem to you... How about recording your take on any other (empty) track and just move recorded wave block to the track where you want it to be?
mjb Posts: 167	Posted - Wed Feb 05, 2003 6:52 am  SteveG wrote: Yes, I had noticed it. It's the sort of wisecrack you get from people who find it necessary to tell us this: Take a look at your keyboard. How likely is it that it was just a typo? What wisecrack? :) Mike.
SteveG Location: United Kingdom Posts: 6695	Posted - Wed Feb 05, 2003 7:02 am  Could be a typo. Okay, give him the benefit of the doubt over that one - so he doesn't check his posts. Doesn't alter anything else, though. _________________
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