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wysiwyg · Posted - Sun Mar 04, 2001 2:39 pm

Hi folks,

I'm going to be transferring some 50 year old LPs to CD. What's the best procedure for physically preparing the records before recording? Nothing that will dissolve the label is acceptable.

Any info on the kinds of brushes and solutions to use and where to find them would be appreciated.

Bill

audio guy · Posted - Mon Mar 05, 2001 8:06 pm

Yo bud.....don.t use any special cleaning solvents.....these discs are not plastic....l think they are acetones...or may be even wax.....Check with your local museum...there will be some one to help you....or at least they will pass on a contact....or if there is a film or music archive in your city...contact them.....but please no commercial solvents......also.....don't forget.....the groove is thicker on old records...so don't try and record it your Technics 1200.....please research ...before oyu record......also there is a technique for recording old discs with water....sorry l am not real up with this sort of stuff.... :-)

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

These discs - if they are 'LP's' will be made of vinyl. They are most certainly not going to be 'acetones' - whatever he meant by that.

The safest material to clean any record with is pure distilled water, possibly with a very small amount of a surfactant added to break down the surface tension. In bad cases, you might consider adding a few percent of Isopropyl Alcohol. Note that shellac records (78's) should not be cleaned with any solvents - only water.

If you only have a few records to clean, consider a professional cleaning service (look on the web for one near you). Apart from having the right materials, they will also be using some sort of mechanical scrubbing machine (Monks, VPI, etc.) to loosen the dirt from the grooves and remove the cleaning solution quickly and efficiently.

The groove on LP records of this age will be playable with a standard stylus - although 45 singles might benefit from a slightly larger stylus.

FORGET ABOUT WET PLAYING ANY DISC

This is not a recommended practice and will likely make the record impossible to play properly when dry.

Audio Guy is right - he's not up on this sort of stuff and his advice should be taken with a large degree of caution.

audio guy · Posted - Mon Mar 05, 2001 9:40 pm

Yo Brother G....chill out.....as l said....l am not an expert....just imparting what l have read....so have a good day :-)

beetle · Location: USA

PLAY NICE KIDS!

If you have about $350 you can get a vinyl record cleaning machine such as the Nitty Gritty machine.

Other than that, i'd try some tepid distilled water and a drop or two of a very mild dishwashing detergent, perhaps Ivory, applied gently with a soft, lint free clean rag. Rinse well under running water and dry thoughly before playing.

If you play your records wet, you must play it wet ALL THE TIME AFTERWARD. If you try this make sure your recording devices are ready because you may only get one good shot at it. It may not work. Also, the stylus may kick up some of the dirt so you may have to clean it off right after playing it.

BTW, the word is acetates.

beetle · Location: USA

PLAY NICE KIDS!

Now, If you have about $350 to spare you can get a Nitty Gritty record cleaner.

Barring that, get some tepid, distilled water, and one or two drops of Ivory soap and apply it to the Lp gently with a soft, clean, lint free cloth. Rinse the record throughly and dry well before playing.

If you try the playing wet method, be warned that it may not work. And, if you do this you will have to play it wet everytime afterward. Also, the stylus may kick up ground-in dirt and cause sludge that must be cleaned off immediately after playing wet.

BTW, the word is ACETATES, and they were usually used as test pressings. 78's were usually made from shellac.

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

urumuqi74 · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 7:51 am

Playing wet vinyl.

Funny idea but actually it could help to cool down the temperature produce by the stylus on the record. Obviously, the result will be noisy!!!

As for the Isopropyl Alcohol, I won't recommend it for this simple reason: In order to eliminate the possibility that the isopropyl alcohol is mixed with your drink, by mistake of course, chemical companies are now putting an additive to it so the color of the whole drink will change. It could be like that in your respective countries as well.

So, when you are reading a label, 70% isopropyl alcohol, it doesn't mean that the other 30% is pure H2O.

I would recommend the methyl alcohol which comes at 100% which is appropriate for the cleaning work at a low volume (10 to 25%).

beetle · Location: USA

Never use alcohol!!!

It may break down the chemicals in the vinyl.

As far as having the records professionally cleaned, what do you think the "pros" are going to do? They are going to do the same thing you can do at home with that Nitty Gritty cleaner, just as I can charge them to restore a record when they can do it at home. You can change your own tire or oil but most would rather pay someone to do it for them.

urumuqi74 · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:20 am

I guess that we have debated this topic over and over. I used alcohol at a very low percentage to breakdown the water.

I also use mild dish soap for heavy cleaning, again diluted in low part with the water.

Whatever is used, just make sure that you are doing a second wash involving water only in order to remove the chemical that could have been left on the vinyl.

Never used ACETONE or Nail Polish remover or PAint Thinner!!!!!! :-)

wysiwyg · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:29 am

Paint thinner? Ye Gods, perish the thought :-) They're not my records. Professional cleaning might be a good idea except for location; on or near a reservation in this case. I'll try distilled water and a soft rag for starters.

What about brushes prior to using the water?

urumuqi74 · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 9:48 am

seanbaker · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:41 am

Have you all ever heard of those latex rollers? Seriously, no joke. I have a latex roller that you roll over the surface. Its sticky soft material gets down into the grooves and sticks to the dirts and lifts it out but causes no damage to the grooves and there's no chemicals. I don't know where to find these for records anymore, but they are identical to the sticky latex lint rollers I've seen sold in discount stores. When they get too dirty you simply rinse them off and let them dry and it's ready for use again. The sticky material never goes away.

Anybody heard anything bad about this process, because I've been doing it for 20 years, so please let me know if there's something I don't know. I'd hate to be in a "sticky" situation, hee hee.

urumuqi74 · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 10:47 am

I saw these 20 years ago but choose a wet system instead for heavy work and the carbon fiber brush for daily use.

The question is, with the roller, is it strong enough to get the particles that are incrusted in the vinyl. :-)))

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

urumuqi74 · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 2:22 pm

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

austin · Posted - Tue Mar 06, 2001 8:19 pm

This thread confirms something I saw years ago. However, I have recently had some interesting experiences in cleaning records and playing them wet. I've only done about a dozen LPs, for my own use, no commercial work, so would welcome observations from those with more experience. Always looking for a better way.

CLEANING

I do this in the kitchen sink, with very mild dishwashing liquid and tap water. For very dirty records, a very soft, all natural bristle paintbrush about 2 inches wide works well. It must not be stiff and must not have any synthetic bristles. I just follow the grooves around very lightly a few times, and rinse thoroughly under the faucet before drying. If seeing the label pucker a little bothers you, then don't do this, although it will flatten out a little when it dries.

Fortunately, the water in my area (St. Louis) is not heavily mineralized, so I use it straight from the tap, or with a filter to take the chlorine out.

TWO INTERESTING DEVICES

A roommate (30 years ago) had a wet-playing device called a Lenco Clean, from Germany, I believe. This was mounted on the turntable base, and tracked just like a second tone arm. The arm was a transparent tube about 5/16 dia, and filled with a propietary fluid, probably distilled water with a wetting agent. At the end of the arm was a small, soft brush which rested on the grooves. The liquid was drawn through the brush into the grooves, and created a wet band for the needle to track in.

The sound was good, but something in the liquid dried in the grooves and caused clicks and pops when the record was played dry.

Another friend had a dry-playing gadget called a Dust Bug. It was basically a small ball of very soft velvet on the end of a plastic strip. This was also mounted on the base and tracked like a second tone arm, and picked up any dust or lint in the grooves before the needle got to it.

The Dust Bug worked well, and left no residue on the record.

PLAYING WET

I made a Dust Bug-like device out of wire and a piece of velvet. The difference is that mine is used wet; the liquid used is the same as used for cleaning. An eyedropper full or two on top of the wet velvet will cover the whole side of the LP. The turntable (not high-end) dust cover is kept down to retard evaporation.

As soon as recording is complete, the record is washed again, rinsed, and dried before being stored. I have had no problems with clicks and pops from residue, as with the Lenco Clean.

SECOND PLAYING

By accident I discovered that records usually sounded a little better on the second playing. It must be that the needle is stirring up more debris from the bottom of the groove, to be carried away by the water. I always play twice now, and record on the second playing.

Edited by - austin on 03/06/2001 8:21:51 PM

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

I really do not recommend wet-playing. Once you have done this, it seems that you are committed to wet-play forever more.

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 6:42 am

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 7:24 am

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 8:32 am

Yes sir, expensive chemistry and household commodities!!! I have seen this site last year while I was looking for a "miracle solution" and "miracle brush".

I am interested to give it a try but I need a miraculous customer and contributor of this forum to assess their satifaction in regards to this product.

:-)

Graeme · Member Location: Spain

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 10:44 am

Thank you for the info. It's just confirming what I tought before. Better be safe than sorry!!!

KenGAce · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 2:10 pm

I bought one of those rollers from "Crazy Eddie's" back in the mid 80s (about $15 then). It has a yellow colored soft sticky feeling roller which rinses off very well. I also use Realistic's carbon fiber brush that really gets down deep into the grooves.

Have you all ever heard of those latex rollers? Seriously, no joke. I have a latex roller that you roll over the surface. Its sticky soft material gets down into the grooves and sticks to the dirts and lifts it out but causes no damage to the grooves and there's no chemicals. I don't know where to find these for records anymore, but they are identical to the sticky latex lint rollers I've seen sold in discount stores. When they get too dirty you simply rinse them off and let them dry and it's ready for use again. The sticky material never goes away.

Anybody heard anything bad about this process, because I've been doing it for 20 years, so please let me know if there's something I don't know. I'd hate to be in a "sticky" situation, hee hee.[/quote]

KenGAce · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 2:14 pm

Does anyone know what ingredients are used in the Last Record Preservative? Someone mentioned to me that it is liquid freon.

KenGAce · Posted - Wed Mar 07, 2001 2:24 pm

A friend of mine worked for a chemical fragrances company and had access to a chemical analyzer. I gave him a small sample of the VPI cleaning fluid and after analysis he told me it was composed of 1 part Isopropyl alcohol, 3 parts Distilled water, and a few drops of (believe it or not) white vinegar. Better uses than for just salad dressing!

urumuqi74 · Posted - Thu Mar 08, 2001 6:45 am

The LAST product for record preservation is altering the vinyl chemical structure. Apparently, retarding the degradation of the vinyl wear by the stylus. If I remember well, the vinyl gets harder.

The chemical composition of LAST is still a secret. I have notice that it is extremely volatile so you don't leave the bottle open too long. The smell of it remembers me a Nagaoka product I am using for tape head cleaning. This product chemical base is mainly carbon tetrachloride (could be the wrong translation!!!). As the LAST product, it is extremely volatile.

I used LAST in the 80's. It didn't harm my vinyl. However, I have notice a slight increase in the vinyl noise level, very , very slight.

After 15 years of developing a routine on cleaning and maintaining LP's, I feel that LAST doesn't worth its price tag and that you better invest your money in a declicking plug-in or better ina couple of CDs.

Edited by - urumuqi74 on 03/08/2001 08:50:53 AM

mls99 · Posted - Wed Mar 14, 2001 1:17 am

Have you tried the Disc Washer system? My recordings are in relatively good condition and I use both the Disc Washer and the Stylus Washer from them. I use it each time before playing any LP. Works fine.

urumuqi74 · Posted - Wed Mar 14, 2001 6:48 am

Yes,
In fact, this is the first "kit" I use while trying to clean an LP. Although, I don't use their solution. I get good results most of the time. As mentioned before, I use carbon fiber brush to remove dust in ordinary condition.