(drum) midi --> wave?

Well, you see, thats why I switch to midi:
I want the drum to be perfect     Well, "very good" would also be ok, but myself, I am far from perfect, I will go faster or slower, and also my hits are often somewhat louder or softer at times....

So thats why I thought I should switch to midi...

Well, you see, thats why I switch to midi:
I want the drum to be perfect     Well, "very good" would also be ok, but myself, I am far from perfect, I will go faster or slower, and also my hits are often somewhat louder or softer at times....

So thats why I thought I should switch to midi...

It's quite easy to make things too perfect.  This might be alright for some genres of music, but it's a real killer for others.  No drummer hits a skin twice at the same volume - this is one of the things which you have to accomodate when making midi drum tracks.  Cymbals are even more revealing.  Listen to the sound of a drummer riding a cymbal and just hear how different each and every hit is is terms of tone and volume.  It's these little nuances which you have to re-create if you want to produce anything close to realistic sounding midi drums.  

If your timing is suspect, then maybe you will have to quantise initially, but drummers don't hit everything exactly at the right time either, so you will be moving things around later to get that 'natural' feel.

Well, you see, thats why I switch to midi:
I want the drum to be perfect     Well, "very good" would also be ok, but myself, I am far from perfect, I will go faster or slower, and also my hits are often somewhat louder or softer at times....

So thats why I thought I should switch to midi...

Hi Dieter,

I'm a drummer as well and am experiencing the same hurdles as you. I don't know if this will help, but here's what I do.

I record (live with guitarist) with loud metronome in headphones. I try to lay down a nice, clean accurate part. I don't worry about fills at this point because this is just a time (tempo) track. Call this tempo track.

I then record a new track while listening to tempo track (and guitar) in the phones. This track is, hopefully, the keeper.

Check out this free (if you haven't already) drum program. It is the only one on my system after trying a bunch (including Leaf). It isn't the most versatile but it is easy to use and you can adjust the shuffle to give it more of a human feel.

http://www.threechords.com/hammerhead/

If you really want to ditch the kit and go digital, you'll probably have to plunk down some cash for something good.

hth

s

Yes I tried hammerhead once, but it's really a bad choice for what i want to do, I want to create whole songs, not a looping drum part.

But ok, I have found the midi editor in Cubase SX very decent to handle this task, now I'm trying other programs like DR008 (and "buzz" and synthedit ) in order to render the midi to waves.

Hey Guys,
I really not into advertising or so, but it makes me sad to see people comparing midi drums or samples to a real drum sound or a real drummer performance. It's like taking Mozart charts and play them via midi. Even it's the best piano sampler, it still lacks the feeling and performance of a human pianist.

As a drummer, I think there are certain styles that drum machine might fit in. (especially if your are Britney Spears ) But for quality rock or pop song, you must have a real drummer.

Suppose you don't have the hours and the money to spend over studio hours that can record drums professionally, session player, etc'… we are recording custom drum tracks online – http://drumsforyou.com.

Dieter, why don't you go onto the "Recordings Showcase", listen to a few tracks and see if you can spot "real" drumming. Ask the author of the post how he gets his drum sound and see if you get surprised

Regards

Mark

[lot]

I have the feeling that your reply is not ment for me, but for Elad Fish

I am convinced that decent sampled drums sound waaay good enough to compare to, or even surpass real drums

Also, I learned a lot since my last post in this topic, as a matter of fact, I just ordered drumkit from hell superior!  
for those who don't know it: it rocks!

I am convinced that decent sampled drums sound waaay good enough to compare to, or even surpass real drums

Since sampled drums are recordings of real drums, how are they supposed to surpass them? With some care, they can certainly sound as convincing as real drums, because basically they are 'real' drums, but I'm a little mystified as to how you think they can be better than them?

But given a choice of recording a track with a good kit in a sympathetic environment with a decent drummer, or using samples, I'll go with the drummer every time however good the samples are. I'd rather have the human idiosyncracies introduced by a human drummer in the correct context, if you see what I mean. These really aren't that easy to program convincingly at all.

Because programs like drumkit from hell superior give you options that you don't have in a real recording enviornment.
For example the ability to tweak the leakage from one certain instrument through all the microphones, basically you can specify how much each mic picks up from each instrument individually

Also take note that with such vsti's every single hit has been recorded perfectly, in a room and using hardware that's very hard to afford for most recording engineers.
When recording a drummer live you don't have 100% control over the leakage, the quality of each single hit, the overall performance, and likely the room and equipment won't be as good as the ones used when creating these software packages.
When i say they surpass real drums i also have these things in mind

I have the feeling that your reply is not ment for me, but for Elad Fish

I am convinced that decent sampled drums sound waaay good enough to compare to, or even surpass real drums

Also, I learned a lot since my last post in this topic, as a matter of fact, I just ordered drumkit from hell superior!  
for those who don't know it: it rocks!

Dieter, It wasn't a trick question. If anything,  it was to say there is some good music on the forums, with and without real drums. If you can't tell the difference, then the author of the song has done a good job convincing people they aren't real drums. You just have to listen a hear for yourself.

Regards

Mark

Because programs like drumkit from hell superior give you options that you don't have in a real recording enviornment.
For example the ability to tweak the leakage from one certain instrument through all the microphones, basically you can specify how much each mic picks up from each instrument individually

Also take note that with such vsti's every single hit has been recorded perfectly, in a room and using hardware that's very hard to afford for most recording engineers.
When recording a drummer live you don't have 100% control over the leakage, the quality of each single hit, the overall performance, and likely the room and equipment won't be as good as the ones used when creating these software packages.
When i say they surpass real drums i also have these things in mind

Forgive me, but I've yet to hear a track where that much attention to drum detail has made or broken it. Some of the best drum tracks in seminal recordings have been made in the most unlikely circumstances, and with whatever was lying around at the time.

Go and listen to Led Zeppelin's 'When The Levee Breaks' and then I'll tell you how the drums were recorded...

Go and listen to Led Zeppelin's 'When The Levee Breaks' and then I'll tell you how the drums were recorded...

Steve, I haven't time for Dieter to hear that, How WHERE they recorded for the record

Regards

Mark

One application that's worth a mention for the non-drummers among us (and that includes me) is Jamstix - www.rayzoon.com - one demo convinced me to buy it.

I'm still learning some of its more intricate bits (the manual could do with some expansion and the rate of upgrades means its difficult to keep track of the chages being made) but coupled with a decent set of samples, it's not bad at all.  It's own samples are passable for many users.

Dieter, It wasn't a trick question. If anything,  it was to say there is some good music on the forums, with and without real drums. If you can't tell the difference, then the author of the song has done a good job convincing people they aren't real drums. You just have to listen a hear for yourself.

Regards

Mark

Yes, I know?? Trick question??? I know how they can make very realistic sounding sampled drums, no need to convince me about that

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Forgive me, but I've yet to hear a track where that much attention to drum detail has made or broken it. Some of the best drum tracks in seminal recordings have been made in the most unlikely circumstances, and with whatever was lying around at the time.

Go and listen to Led Zeppelin's 'When The Levee Breaks' and then I'll tell you how the drums were recorded...

You were doubting if sampled drums could sound better then "real" drums.  I explained why I think that, although I am very aware - as you are- that this level of detail is "overkill" for most situations, another reason why I think that sampled drums are a very good solution.

I prefer working with real drums and drummers since there is often some "feeling" that way. Especially when the whole band played together this could give some little touch to the end result that is hard to capture with programmed drums. But right now I have to work without a drummer so these midi drums etc. are the only solution. In that case they prove useful