Why does vinyl excite me more than a cd.

[both]

It's both - go and read what I said more carefully!
It's not an either-or situation. I did not claim that the article is entirely correct

Sorry, I didn't read past this. You made it very clear that the article backed up something you said, which you then thought about, and came up with the opposite. Now, whilst I fully understand your re-think, all I want is an admission that your original posts were in fact contradictory. This really doesn't require you to spend four huge paragraphs to explain why this or that. Just a simple, "Yes, I was being contradictory"  

Thanks muchly for your informative help.

[both]

It's both - go and read what I said more carefully!
It's not an either-or situation. I did not claim that the article is entirely correct

Sorry, I didn't read past this. You made it very clear that the article backed up something you said, which you then thought about, and came up with the opposite. Now, whilst I fully understand your re-think, all I want is an admission that your original posts were in fact contradictory. This really doesn't require you to spend four huge paragraphs to explain why this or that. Just a simple, "Yes, I was being contradictory"  

But I wasn't...  

Early digital equipment, both on the production side and the playback side, may not have been good enough to fully exploit the concept. This was probably one reason some significant number of people did like CDs so well as LPs, but this difference approach in mastering might also have put off  many people. They didn't like getting something different from, and perhaps less polished than, they were used to.

Eventually vinyl almost went out of production and the current era settle in with its heavy compression and a somewhat strange viewpoint about what should be emphasized. Lately there has been a significant surge in LP manufacture. There are many reissues that promise sonics superior to the originals, and quite a bit of new music also. How is this new vinyl being mastered? Is there a tenancy towards imitating CDs, something completely new, or a return to the proven approaches that made the best LPs of decades ago?

Lately there has been a significant surge in LP manufacture. There are many reissues that promise sonics superior to the originals, and quite a bit of new music also. How is this new vinyl being mastered? Is there a tenancy towards imitating CDs, something completely new, or a return to the proven approaches that made the best LPs of decades ago?

Possibly the latter - although anybody who thinks that he's going to become George Peckham overnight is a self-delusional fool. OTOH, it is true that the cutting electronics have improved - this was always a bit of a bete noir with the old lathes, although I don't think that it will really make that much difference. One of the huge differences you can make to an LP is to put far less material on it - don't use the varigroove, and increase the modulation levels. Also, reducing the runs from stampers makes a big difference - these clap out remarkably quickly. It's always been possible to get better performance from LPs - as long as you didn't mind compromising on the side length, and were prepared to put up with complaints from people whose cheap old cartridges wouldn't track your records properly. But since this is only ever going to be a niche market now, the people making these discs may well be able to do some, if not all, of these things.

You've addressed the mechanics of better sound on an LP, but the main focus of this thread has been on the mastering -- those things done with the recording to make it work well on vinyl. Of course, no one around may have heard enough of the expensive new stuff to know what's being done, but it is an interesting consideration. Especially if that mastering approach of yesterday is really one of the more distinguishing aspects of what makes for a difference in the music on LPs and CDs.

Putting less on an LP side, and utilizing the extra real estate for better quality, may be common for new music, but it seems unlikely for most reissues, which seem to be a large segment of the vinyl revival.

Its fascinating to me that this 'niche' market seems to have developed at least a couple hundred production model turntables selling in the $2,500 to $75,000 range.

Its fascinating to me that this 'niche' market seems to have developed at least a couple hundred production model turntables selling in the $2,500 to $75,000 range.

And that's precisely what keeps it 'niche'. DJs use dub plates as much as a physical convenience as for any sonic reasons - and if they're feeling only moderately rich, they can cut their own. It's quite interesting to note that Vinylium are trying to sell their huge Neumann system and are concentrating on things like the dub plate cutter, which in comparison to some of those ridiculously overpriced turntables, is quite affordable!

But there are very few proper vinyl mastering plants around now - they are not cheap to keep running at all, as much because of the cutter head maintenance as for any other reason.

It's quite interesting to note that Vinylium are trying to sell their huge Neumann system and are concentrating on things like the dub plate cutter, which in comparison to some of those ridiculously overpriced turntables, is quite affordable!

Didn't see anything else besides their dub-cutter and compared to a Neumann lathe it seems to be a bit lightweight. I can't think that missing a couple 100's kg does vinyl cutting any good.

But if you re-read all the posts then it looks as if their is a clear consensus that the difference is more a mastering issue than a technical issue. Doesn't surprise me.

EDIT: ok, I found it. They do not sell neumann lathes, they sell the one they own....interpretation.

EDIT: ok, I found it. They do not sell neumann lathes, they sell the one they own....interpretation.

That's precisely the point - no demand for their big one!

Why does Latex ® excite me more than cotton ?

I was looking at yahoo search and found this.

http://www.decware.com/forums/Zen_Triode/posts/799.html

What you pay for in a great phono cartridge is desirable interpretations. The interpretation and presentation of the recording is in the hands of the cartridge and the best ones will interpret recordings with air, space, dynamics and shimmer that result in a completely holographic soundstage with depths in the hundreds of feet. You sit there and wonder how in the hell the recording engineers managed to capture such marvelous presence and depth. They didn't. In fact it's likely that the actual engineers that mixed down the recording wouldn't know what I'm talking about. No, it's the cartridge. A good moving coil cartridge adds these illusions, or puts back a lot of what was squashed out during the recording process. It's a mechanical device governed by the laws of physics that resonates and excites the information into electrical energy.


So could it be all in the catridge?

So could it be all in the catridge?

No.

If you belive that load of self-contradicting audiophile ****, then perhaps it might be, but not in the real world...

And what do I mean by self-contradicting?

A good moving coil cartridge adds these illusions, or puts back a lot of what was squashed out during the recording process. It's a mechanical device governed by the laws of physics...[/list:u][/color]

Obeys laws of physics = adds illusions? Pure bullshit. A cartridge/stylus assembly is a transducer. The only measure of how well it works is in its ability to accurately reflect the mechanical positions of the grooves as an electrical analogue. The moment it starts to add or subtract anything, it's distorting. You might

like some of these distortions, but there's no way that they are 'putting back a lot of what was squashed out during the recording process'.

On fire. The Passion of Steve.  Ha ha ha. :P

One thing Steve is pointing out here is that a cartridge makes no interpretations at all.  A modern cartridge isn't all that different from the first wax-on-drum recordings, which are perfectly easy to undertand.

Why does Latex ® excite me more than cotton ?

Why?

I love flannelette