For they 78rpm experts.

Long post....

I went to a fair yesterday and picked up 3 album like contraptions with 78rpm disc in them for  next to nothing. A quick glance told they were in good condition (with a few exceptions).

Coming home and inspecting it a bit more closely I found they contained complet series of works. Until now I only had seen single discs, one tune side A, another side B. But here I had the equivalent of a "CD box". As I have never seen that before, I have no idea if this is something you come around often or not, neither do I know if they are complete (some are according to numbering). Just a list so you can tell me if it was worth picking up, soiled my hands for nothing or found some rare specimen.... Any idea of age is also welcome.

Beethoven Op92 Symphony Nr7 A major
Leopold Stokowski
Philadelphia Orchestra
HMV Album of complete works (N°79) electrical recording 5 black label discs nos D1639 to D1643
(only the last one has a black label, they are all made by "the grammophone Co LTd". This is a map containing only this, with the work printed on the front, with a history of the work and explanation of the themes on the inside. Discs look very good with an occasional fingerprint. There is a tally at the back going to 47, could this be how often they were played?)

Mendelsohn Op90 Symphony N°4 A major
Serge Koussevitzky
Boston symphonic orchestra
HMV D.B.7937, D.B.7938 and D.B.7939 "the grammophone Co LTd"
(the first one is cleanly broken in 2, is there a way around this or too dangerous?)

Lalo Symphonie Espagnol pour violon et orchestre
H. Merckel violon
Pierro Coppola
Orchestre du theatre national de l'opera
Gramophone (France) L-923 to L-926 (4 discs)

Borodin-Rimski Korsakov Polowetzer Tanze aus "Furst Igor"
Leopold Stokowski
Philadelphia orchestra
Electrola (Berlin) D.B.3232 and D.B.3233

Beethoven Op73 Klavierconcert N°5 Es-dur
Edwin Fisher piano
Karl Bohm
Sachsischen Staatskapelle
Electrola (Berllin) D.B.-5511 to D.B.-5515 (5 discs)

Ravel Bolero (has he written anything else??)
M. Ravel (yep, composer directing his own work)
orchestre de l'association des concerts Lamoureux
Polydor 566.030 and 566.031 (complete: sides numbered 4/I to 4/IV)

Weber Oberon ouverture
Willem Mengelberg
Concertgebouw orchestra
Columbia (London) L2312 and L2313
(complete as there are only 3 sides, the fourth has the "slavic dance" by dvorak on it)

Wembley Military Tattoo
Columbia UK 9073 and 9074
(didn't know they ever put that on 78rpm!)

(the first one is cleanly broken in 2, is there a way around this or too dangerous?)

No, believe that there are ways to 'persuade' these back together well enough to play at least once - although its not entirely straightforward by any means. I think that Graeme knows something about this - it may be a good idea to PM him when he gets back - or just do a search, because I'm pretty sure that he, (or perhaps it was somebody else) has written something about it on one of the forums.

Interesting collection of 78's you've found though - but I have no idea of any of its value at all!

You should have no problem with the cleanly snapped record (after all it's only got two cracks... ). 78s are exceptionally forgiving in this respect - the finished transfer should be a matter of careful declicking. You need to line the record up as accurately as possible and use sellotape or similar tape to hold the non-playback side together. Clearly some experimentation may be required, but you want to get it as flat on the turntable as possible. A really good match can sometimes be virtually inaudible before declicking. When you've done one side turn over and do the same for the other.

If you're not bothered about preserving the label then it may help the rigidity if you stick tape onto this on the playback side as well. Ultimately experimentation is your best bet. I guess in theory you're risking stylus damage but I've not seen any from the few discs I've have like this.

As for rarity value -  do a search to see if anyone's already transfered them commercially. Generally 78s have very little value, unless you can persuade someone to release your version on CD...

If you're not bothered about preserving the label then it may help the rigidity if you stick tape onto this on the playback side as well.

Putting tape over the label won't work. It looks like someone took a bite out of it But I get the idea, and it is a rather clean break, not with chipped edges. Most dangerous will be where the crack follows the groove. The labels are printed directly on disc anyway.

Generally 78s have very little value, unless you can persuade someone to release your version on CD...

The value of them is not my concern. This is strictly for fun, its the story behind that interests me. I'm more interested in how common were this kind of "sets". All 78rpm's I saw until now were just "singles". I mean, 2 different works on each side, a couple of dances, a pair of arias from some opera, 2 song by some artist, etc. Never a whole work cut up in 5 discs. Since one of the maps is labeled "album series" there must have been more of course. Would this have been something like an "audiophile edition"?

Don't see why anyone would need another version of the works on them. The only ones that I'm sure to transfer are the Bolero because Ravel was the director and the tattoo as this seems the most incredible.

I currently have about 80 albums of 78s awaiting transfer...

Clearly they were less common and more expensive, but for classical works they were the only practical solution. Hence a symphony would stretch over many sides, as you've discovered!

I currently have about 80 albums of 78s awaiting transfer...

You have my sympathy I have spend already more than a 12h on just a single side of my first 78rpm. (not part of those albums) And I have the feeling that the result is still not worth listening to. In fact getting worse.

But since you say they were less common and more expensive, they might be better cared for. We'll see. Going to give it a try as soon as they leave me alone with crashing pc's! Got 3 lined up right now. Then I can start on my own pc, then a preamp for 78rpm's with the needed EQ. Will be next winter I guess....

I have spend already more than a 12h on just a single side of my first 78rpm.

Sounds lke you need to develop a more economically viable system!

I'd reckon on about half a day to play in, process and mix an album of 78s. I'd then probably leave it for a few days, then come back and think about the final EQ and NR decisions. Being able to play in 78s at the correct speed with the correct EQ on a pre-amp is a definite plus, as is having a range of stylus widths and profiles to find the best fit before you start. All of that makes for less work later.

These days once I've played them in I put the files into the multitrack and work on the cross-fades. I then set up an FX chain, roughly as follows:

SF NR 2.0 declick
Waves X-Decrackle
[Waves X-Denoise] - possibly
Ozone 3 - further EQ, noise expansion, possibly fill out lower harmonics
[Waves X-Decrackle] - possibly again
Channel mixer to mono

The mixdown would then go to Har-Bal for further fine-tuning prior to leaving for a few days to mature...

I don't have to charge clients for my time. Guess I couldn't even if I had clients But you are right, there is something wrong. If I take a look at your toolchain, then I must say I start at a disadvantage. I only have CEP and Dartpro around for this job. Only "right" tool is a TT that can play 78rpm (and has variable speed for 80rpm).

I do have a 78rpm needle, but it is only a generic one. This is OK as it is just for fun, I'm not ready to go for a whole set of needles. I'll continue like this until I have my preamp ready. Maybe if the virus bites.... This brings me to another question: is there something like a cartridge available for wich there are a range of styluses available, or are those other styluses custom made only?

The disc I started with may not have been a good choice. I just plopped the first one of the pack on the TT and played it in. There is a kind of distortion when there are loud passages. It isn't any of the later stages, it is the disc itself. Took it under a microscope, and you can see that the top of the groove (where it joins the lands) is chipped. Seems like it has been played with not enough force on the cartridge and the needle jumped around when hitting a loud passage. The quiet passages are fine. Would only need a bit of work if it weren't for those distortions. Maybe I need to play it with more weight, or at a lower speed to get passed that problem.

I get my 78rpm stylii from Expert Stylus in the UK. They sold me a Shure M44-7 cartridge for which they custom-make a huge range of stylii of different sizes and profiles. Currently I use 6 different stylii and swap and change them around as required.

Note that a generic stylus is highly unlikely to be truncated - i.e.e the tip will be sharp. The custom stylii all have truncated tips, where the point is rounded off to prevent contact with any debris or dirt at the bottom of the groove. This might be a problem causing some of your distortion...

Stanton does not say much about it, but on the web I found it listed as a 2.7mil elliptical. I looked at it through a magnifier and it didn't look that sharp, but then again it may have been so dirty it didn't show

Thanks for all the info. When I'll feel an urge I'll give expert stylus a call.